Quote from: Sacrosanct;683263My very first post was, " 3e still had mundane classes doing relatively mundane abilities not having fighters being able to replicate spells (a common point that 4e fans like to bring up when talking about how Next sucks because it doesn't allow fighters to replicate spells.)"

What part don't you get?  What part of that makes you think that it's my position?  The very first post I say it's a claim made by some 4e fans.   I'm starting to agree with Black Veluma.  You are doing nothing but trying to troll the forums.  Because no one can be this stupid.

Apparently you can.

But anyway, OK, so your position is simply that 'a common point that 4e fans like to bring up[/B] when talking about how Next sucks because it doesn't allow fighters to replicate spells'. Well, I didn't see a single example of that in either of the threads you linked to. But if it's so common, I should be seeing it all the time, right? So please show me some examples of 4e fans saying this. Because the only name we've been given so far has now turned up in the thread again and flatly denied your claims.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;683262That's pretty funny.  I suppose that's why when you said that you liked how 4e had fighters who could replicate mage and cleric spells with their own powers, that's why you later had to explain it using your "it's because... imitate things like Vampire Hunter D, Ninja Scroll, and our favorite characters from Final Fantasy 6/7, Chrono Trigger, and StarOcean.."

I was talking about powers, things beyond spamming swinging a sword over and over again, not spells. Powers are not necessarily spells. Come and get It isn't a spell.

QuoteNo wonder lawyers have the rep they do.  You have to be one of the most disingenuous dirtbags I've ever seen.  Real testament to your profession.  Hell, real testament to your species.

This is what I said on page 6:

" 3e still had mundane classes doing relatively mundane abilities not having fighters being able to replicate spells (a common point that 4e fans like to bring up when talking about how Next sucks because it doesn't allow fighters to replicate spells.)"

Which means the same thing as TCO said, and Lokaire, and Blacksheepcannibel, and a few others all reaffirmed in both of those threads I linked.  Lokaire was directly asked what 4e style means, and he gave an explanation.  An explanation where the mundane classes were able to replicate the spells and/or powers of caster classes.

You are equating powers with spells, not us.

QuoteProbably because you're one of the worst representations of a 4e fan, and constantly either change your story or lie about it.  Christ dude, you had a lengthy conversation trying to justify your position that fighters need powers to replicate spells by your repeated references to Vampire Hunter D.


Yeah, you two certainly are a piece of work.

Replicating spells is your words. My words are do the cool stuff we saw on TV/videogames, and to have powers that match spells in potency and concept(which doesn't make those powers spells).

--clarification, by concept I mean be as dramatic and interesting as a spell.

You're projecting your own prejudices onto what other people say.

Quote from: soviet;683264So please show me some examples of 4e fans saying this. Because the only name we've been given so far has now turned up in the thread again and flatly denied your claims.

I already gave you the links.  I gave you no less than 3 names as well.


You know what?  Obviously you are just trolling.  You have to be.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;683265I was talking about powers, things beyond spamming swinging a sword over and over again, not spells. Powers are not necessarily spells. Come and get It isn't a spell.

.

But it replicates the power of a spell.  That's the whole point.  That's why other people told you that if you can't explain it via mundane means, then effectively it's no different than a spell.  That's why rather than explain it in mundane terms, you kept going back to "It works because Vampire Hunter!"

Holy fuck, you are just like Blacksheep in that thread.  When pointed out how you are wrong, you can't actually back up your point but quite literally do the internet equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and saying, "No, you!"

This isn't a bias of mine.  You're statements are there.  I didn't hijack your account and type them for you.  Several people called you out on it, so it's not just my personal biases.

Or let me guess.  You're right, and the rest of the world is what has a problem.  Is that it?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;683267I already gave you the links.  I gave you no less than 3 names as well.


You know what?  Obviously you are just trolling.  You have to be.



But it replicates the power of a spell.  That's the whole point.  That's why other people told you that if you can't explain it via mundane means, then effectively it's no different than a spell.  That's why rather than explain it in mundane terms, you kept going back to "It works because Vampire Hunter!"

This is a fantasy game and a fantasy world. A heroic Fighter PC is not mundane as far as I'm concerned, especially not a high levels. He's more like Jubei from Ninja Scroll than joe blow #6 with a sword. There is no such thing as mundane terms, the point is to not be mundane. My fantasy isn't so narrow that magic is the only not-mundane.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;683267Holy fuck, you are just like Blacksheep in that thread.  When pointed out how you are wrong, you can't actually back up your point but quite literally do the internet equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and saying, "No, you!"

Wait, I thought he was an infallible expert who always tells the truth?

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;683252Probably when 5E flops with the 4E community followed by 4E fans clamoring 3rd party companies to "Pathfinder"-ize 4E.

Keep holding your fuckin' breath for that.

We'll wait.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;683263I'm starting to agree with Black Veluma.  You are doing nothing but trying to troll the forums.

Also, what? Are you confusing me with another poster?

Quote from: soviet;683272Also, what? Are you confusing me with another poster?

Probably.  But I don't care.  You have to be trolling me at this point.

Funny story about 4e.  So last night I meet up with a musician friend of mine whose been living here in Seattle forever. I mentioned that I was playing 5e, and he divulges that a friend a few years back was one of the art directors at WoTC, circa 2007-2008.  Appropro nothing, this is how the conversation goes:

"I hope they're doing a better job of playtesting than they did last time."
"Oh? I didn't think they did a public playtest."
"According to Whatserface, they did an internal playtest. Nobody liked it, and they kept suggesting changes to the developers. The developers just ignored them and ended up cutting the playtest short."

Then, six months after launch, people start losing their jobs.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;683263My very first post was, " 3e still had mundane classes doing relatively mundane abilities not having fighters being able to replicate spells (a common point that 4e fans like to bring up when talking about how Next sucks because it doesn't allow fighters to replicate spells.)"

What part don't you get?  What part of that makes you think that it's my position?  The very first post I say it's a claim made by some 4e fans.   I'm starting to agree with Black Veluma.  You are doing nothing but trying to troll the forums.  Because no one can be this stupid.

...godfuckingdammit I promised myself I was out of this fight...

Show us someone actually making that claim, goddammit. You have not done that. The best you could dredge up was TCO saying something else entirely.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;683274Probably.  But I don't care.  You have to be trolling me at this point.

It sort of weakens your position though doesn't it? You can't keep me and silva distinct and yet you expect us to trust you when you say specific posters made specific points in other threads that you can't be bothered to link to.

Also, asking you to backup your wild assertions isn't trolling. Especially when the quotes and links provided so far actively undermine your claims.

Quote from: LibraryLass;683277...godfuckingdammit I promised myself I was out of this fight...

Show us someone actually making that claim, goddammit. You have not done that. The best you could dredge up was TCO saying something else entirely.

I just did.  When you give fighters abili....er...powers that replicate the effects of a spell, that's exactly the same thing as saying "fighters being able to replicate spells."

Because that's what replicate means.  You're replicating the effect.  Spell, power, whatever term doesn't matter.  The point is that you're giving the fighter a way to replicate the effect of a spell.

Quote from: soviet;683278It sort of weakens your position though doesn't it? You can't keep me and silva distinct and yet you expect us to trust you when you say specific posters made specific points in other threads that you can't be bothered to link to.

Also, asking you to backup your wild assertions isn't trolling. Especially when the quotes and links provided so far actively undermine your claims.

I gave you the links.  I gave you the names.  I even gave you quotes for Christ's sake.  So you're lying.  Those were given to you.

What you did was say that I made a "daft" claim when in fact I was very clear from the beginning that it was not my claim.  You've also said that a group of people widely known to be the biggest fans and experts of a system should automatically be assumed to be lying.

So don't for a second think you can toss stones in your glass house about not keeping things straight.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;683263I'm starting to agree with Black Veluma.  You are doing nothing but trying to troll the forums.

You really don't need to troll these forums. You guys troll yourselves, all I have to do is say 'hello'.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;683262TCO said, and Lokaire, and Blacksheepcannibel, and a few others all reaffirmed in both of those threads I linked.  Lokaire was directly asked what 4e style means, and he gave an explanation.  An explanation where the mundane classes were able to replicate the spells and/or powers of caster classes.

QuoteNone of TCO, lokiare, or blacksheepcannibal claim to be 4e experts in that thread.

None of TCO, lokiare, or blacksheepcannibal claim mundane classes were able to replicate the spells and/or powers of caster classes in 4e in that thread.  TCO says some mundane powers are ON PAR WITH spells, but neither him nor either of the others say what you claim they said, or anything close to it.

I'm not trolling you.  I read the thread.  I think you just misremembered, or didn't understand what they were saying because you're not really familiar with the rules they're talking about.