Quote from: Emperor Norton;683128The way you are conflating this into some conspiracy to make more money, by either the designers or the fans (which is hilarious considering the rules are in the conversion, and the conversion is free) is just absurd conspiracy theorist nonsense to take a piss on a brand you don't like over something that people have been doing since the beginning of the hobby.

All I said was that I'd be delighted if they were sued. I'd still be delighted if they were sued after your contribution, so eh, thanks for that.

Quote from: noisms;683107Nah, that's okay thanks. You're the one who made the claim that "it's played in the style of old school games". The burden of proof is entirely on you.

You don't have to prove it, point the jackass to the post on this very forum by the actual author of Dungeon World where Sage states it is not an old school game.

I sure hope companies don't start suing people for fan conversions. Last thing I want to go back to are the days of T$R. Thankfully companies these days seem to have a much better relationship with fans who generate gameable content.

Quote from: CRKrueger;683132You don't have to prove it, point the jackass to the post on this very forum by the actual author of Dungeon World where Sage states it is not an old school game.

"Played in the style of an old school game" /= "is an old school game".

I painted my door in the style of a Doctor Who TARDIS.  My door is not TARDIS.

Quote from: The Traveller;683131All I said was that I'd be delighted if they were sued. I'd still be delighted if they were sued after your contribution, so eh, thanks for that.

Quote from: The Traveller;683071If they're trying to become less penniless by riding on the coat tails of someone else's hard work and expense, then hell yes sue them. That's assuming you have access to the financial accounts of either the fans or the publishers of DW and can speak with any authority on the matter, which you don't.

Invoking the legal system has gotten something of a bad name due to abuses followed through by large companies, but I strongly believe in people protecting their work if that's what they want to do. If that means they're getting a bad name it's only among people who weren't going to be customers in the first place. You know what Catalyst were calling it? "The Year of Shadowrun". So along come these backalley hawkers and try to take advantage of that. It's bad business, at best unethical, at worst illegal.

Quote from: The Traveller;683052The current price for DW stands at ten dollars for the PDF, without which you can't use the conversion. The problem however is the same as with most IP infringements, trying to get a piece of someone else's marketing effort and expense without spending anything yourself. You do understand that much if not most of the cost of making a successful product is often marketing, right?

Quote from: The Traveller;683098Had they waited for a few years until the SR launch was settled I'd agree with you, but this seems like an actively malicious attempt to scoop the cream off the top of someone else's cup of coffee.

I just want you to know, I'm not arguing with you. I'm openly mocking you and laughing at you because this is some of the dumbest bullshit I've seen on the site.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that I give exactly zero shits about Dungeon World. So before someone drops the "CRUSADE" bullshit on me, shove it.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;683136I just want you to know, I'm not arguing with you. I'm openly mocking you and laughing at you because this is some of the dumbest bullshit I've seen on the site.

Well you feel free to parade your ignorance around however you feel best, it's not my job to stop you.

Is there a free if shortened version of DW going around? I can't seem to find it.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;683136I just want you to know, I'm not arguing with you. I'm openly mocking you and laughing at you because this is some of the dumbest bullshit I've seen on the site.

And I have no clue what you guys are talking about, but damn, that's a really high bar you claim was just highjumped.

Quote from: Mistwell;683138And I have no clue what you guys are talking about, but damn, that's a really high bar you claim was just highjumped.

Traveller is positing that there is a conspiracy by Dungeon World creators/fans to hijack the marketing of Shadowrun to make more money. Despite the fact that its a free fan conversion someone is posting up that has no real connection to the creators of Dungeon World other than that one of the creators popped into its thread and said it was pretty cool.

And that all the rules needed to play are in the conversion, so it can't even be used to sell more copies of DW.

Also, apparently I'm ignorant for not seeing the malicious intent of these horrible people who are making a fan conversion of a setting they like to a rule system they like. Because that totally doesn't happen near constantly in the rpg & storygame hobby.

Quote from: The Traveller;683123You're the one making the claim, you prove it. The onus isn't on me to support your statement that this is common practice, because it isn't. I'm guessing a quick googling provided nothing and so you're trying to make it my problem.

A swing and a miss.

To be honest, I went off and had some risotto. It was okay. Needed some salt.

So no, I've never seen a conversion at about the same time as the original launches - but I've never been looking, either, so that doesn't prove anything. But there were a lot of D&D retroclones around the launch of 4e, and this is a page that's got a FATE hack for SR.

QuoteOh Catalyst is the one taking advantage. I see.

Er, yes? SR5 evidently wasn't ready last year, D&D5 is going to have a huge launch next year and releasing anything against it would be stupid. Waiting until 2015 for the new edition? Catalyst aren't Wizards, so probably can't afford to go that long without a major release; best to take advantage of a large game-sized hole in the market.

QuoteI don't follow, the first two links are to paid purchases and the third is to some sort of wiki-gibberish.

See those menus at the top of the screen? They lead to 99% of the text of the book (The other 1% is side notes, references, and pop culture quotes).

And you still don't need it for Sixth World.

QuoteSo the fact that Catalyst just happens to be putting a lot of money and effort into marketing their game around the exact same time makes no never mind to you, huh.

Catalyst are spending a lot of time and money making people think about Shadowrun, yeah, and not all those thoughts are going to be complimentary.

And, Sage et al have been pushing Dungeon World. It just so happens that was a while ago. I put in for the kickstarter for the Inverse World setting too, so we'll see how that is when it comes out.

QuoteWho said it upset me? By all accounts SR has a shit system, DW is probably better. What irritates me is chancers taking a punt on the back of someone else's hard work. Like I said, if they had waited a few years all would be dandy. What happens now, the DW D&D Next conversion? Hoy.

It's dungeons all the way down from here.

Quote from: The Traveller;683137Well you feel free to parade your ignorance around however you feel best, it's not my job to stop you.

Is there a free if shortened version of DW going around? I can't seem to find it.

Yes, actually.

Or you could just get all the rules for free. From the link I gave you.

Quote from: Ladybird;683144So no, I've never seen a conversion at about the same time as the original launches - but I've never been looking, either, so that doesn't prove anything. But there were a lot of D&D retroclones around the launch of 4e, and this is a page that's got a FATE hack for SR.

There was a Fate version of Star Wars I saw go up right around the time of Edge of the Empire's release.

I can take a guess as to the actual thought process that went into making the SR hack for DW though:

"Oh man, new Shadowrun coming out, awesome. I love Shadowrun. Well, the setting. Crap, man I don't want to run that system again. Hey wait, I do like Dungeon World and my group has been getting a kick out of that. Let's see if I can hack SR into that. I bet people online would think it was cool, too."

Catalyst got people thinking about Shadowrun. It doesn't surprise me that a few people decided that they wanted to convert it to a different system when they started thinking about it.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;683143Traveller is positing that there is a conspiracy by Dungeon World creators/fans to hijack the marketing of Shadowrun to make more money. Despite the fact that its a free fan conversion someone is posting up that has no real connection to the creators of Dungeon World other than that one of the creators popped into its thread and said it was pretty cool.

And that all the rules needed to play are in the conversion, so it can't even be used to sell more copies of DW.

Also, apparently I'm ignorant for not seeing the malicious intent of these horrible people who are making a fan conversion of a setting they like to a rule system they like. Because that totally doesn't happen near constantly in the rpg & storygame hobby.

Ah, OK.  That does seem like a stream of authentic nerdrage gibberish.  Still though, worst ever seen on this board? That gives it far too much credit.

Is this fanfic actually violating any IP? Have the actusl rights holders voiced any concerns?

Quote from: Emperor Norton;683143Also, apparently I'm ignorant for not seeing the malicious intent of these horrible people who are making a fan conversion of a setting they like to a rule system they like. Because that totally doesn't happen near constantly in the rpg & storygame hobby.

No, you're ignorant for not being able to read. But don't let that stop you, chucklehead. Just because the fans aren't about to make bank from taking advantage of somone else's efforts doesn't absolve them from responsibility. And I've already said that the fans are the ones who should be held responsible. Go ahead, paddle back through the thread, it's right there.

Quote from: Ladybird;683144So no, I've never seen a conversion at about the same time as the original launches - but I've never been looking, either, so that doesn't prove anything.

So you retract your comment?

Quote from: Ladybird;683144Er, yes?

Their product was ready, and they released it. Damn their advantage taking eyes!

Quote from: Ladybird;683144See those menus at the top of the screen? They lead to 99% of the text of the book (The other 1% is side notes, references, and pop culture quotes).

What are you talking about. You linked to a page with links to paid purchase options for DW, I can't find a single link that gives me a free PDF, go ahead and update your link at your earliest convenience. FREE if you want to scalp the working bits out of some badly designed website. Eclipse Phase was free.

Quote from: Ladybird;683144Catalyst are spending a lot of time and money making people think about Shadowrun, yeah, and not all those thoughts are going to be complimentary.

When you create a game that 100% of everyone loves let us know. What does this even mean?

Quote from: The Traveller;683150So you retract your comment?

What, that settings have been ported to alternative systems before? That there's going to be some crossover between discontented Shadowrun players and happy Dungeon World players?

It's you that's making allegations of malice...

Quote from: The Traveller;683098but this seems like an actively malicious attempt to scoop the cream off the top of someone else's cup of coffee.

Anyway.

QuoteTheir product was ready, and they released it. Damn their advantage taking eyes!

Er, yes? That's exactly what product release plans are for, to take advantage of market conditions?

You'd have to be stupid to launch a second-tier game like Shadowrun next year.

QuoteWhat are you talking about. You linked to a page with links to paid purchase options for DW, I can't find a single link that gives me a free PDF, go ahead and update your link at your earliest convenience. FREE if you want to scalp the working bits out of some badly designed website. Eclipse Phase was free.

Ah, so now you're changing the rules. It can't be a free copy of the rules because you might have to put the slightest form of effort into it? What, your keyboard lacking CTRL, C and V keys?

QuoteWhen you create a game that 100% of everyone loves let us know. What does this even mean?

It means some people are going to think "Shadowrun, cool setting, crap system. What else can I use...". Same as every other game with it's own strong setting.