Quote from: Claudius;681534-RuneQuest (MRQ2, RQ6). I have always liked BRP and older versions of RuneQuest, but Combat Maneuvers made it even better, they gave more variety and spice to combat. Using a shield gives a big advantage.

Quote from: Nadiv;681538Runequest 6 is exceptional in that regard. It has so-called "special effects" which are fencing manoeuvres, activated when you gain significant advantage over your opponent.

Another vote for RuneQuest 6. It has the best combat system (hands down) of any I've played.

I enjoyed Rolemaster and MERP back in the day.  I especially loved the extensive critical hits charts.

Fantasy Dice from Radical Approach is excellent. Add in Trauma to ramp up the detail.

http://www.radicalapproach.co.uk/

Quote from: Eisenmann;681835Fantasy Dice from Radical Approach is excellent. Add in Trauma to ramp up the detail.

http://www.radicalapproach.co.uk/

I've downloaded the free Turbo Dice thingy for a looksee, thanks. (Not the whole thing I know, but its interesting).

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;681843I've downloaded the free Turbo Dice thingy for a looksee, thanks. (Not the whole thing I know, but its interesting).

No prob. Glad to share.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;681824Thanks for the replies everyone.



Yeah, it was a vague question. One reason that I haven't posted much in response is that I can't really pass judgment on anything any one has said for that reason...

 I guess you could say games that do lots of different things fairly well, so good overall?
 If I'd said 'fastest' or 'most realistic' or 'most tactical' or 'funnest' it'd be an easier question, but then the games people came up with would likely have that but be most likely bad in some other aspect.

In other words, "good".

Quote from: estar;681610First of Harnmaster uses d100 like Rolemaster and Runequest. Like Runequest you are trying to roll under a skill and lower is better. There are four results crit success, success, failure, and crit failure. Any roll ending in a 0 or 5 is a critical. If lower than a crit success, if higher a crit failure.

It doesn't use hit points. Instead you take injury which subtracts from your skill. The bad effects of injury are handle through characteristic saves resulting from the wound you take form a hit. Previous injury makes this roll worse resulting in an increased chance of failure. The type of save depends on the injury that you just took. There are marginal, serious, and grievous injury.

Unconsciousness, stumbling, fumbling, amputation, and death are all a result of failed saves.  If somehow you keep managing to make your saves, your skill and physical characteristics (like movement, lifting, etc) keeps degrading from repeated injuries until you are failing or critical failing most of the time.

On reading the rules it seem complex but in practice it is very straight forward Columbia Games and N Robin Crossby (the original designer) came up with a brilliant presentation using two reference cards and a front loaded character sheet. The result is something that resolves way faster than any other RPG with tactically detailed combat like GURPS, D&D 4e, Rolemaster, Runequest, etc.

The attacker rolls his skill, the defender pick a reaction and roll his defense. The result is cross indexed and the resulting impact and hit location is rolled. The armor is subtracted and you look how much injury to roll and what saves need to be rolled. With the reference cards in hand the process is a snap. Plus the cards can be downloaded and printed so every player can have one.

It even resolves faster than high level classic D&D combat, and can match mid level D&D combat. By resolving I mean how much of the session you spend in combat versus non combat roleplaying. Although character generation is very much slower than D&D.

The rules without magic or religion are only $10 from here.

This is an actual play account of a Harnmaster session I ran.
http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2011/06/911-call-from-attic-repost.html

Nice. I'll check it out.

Iron Kingdoms is by far the most fun and engagement (pun not intended) I've ever had in combats.

Rolemaster is best for the "OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT" and "haha you did WHAT?" factors.

Quote from: Claudius;681534Here is my subjective list:

-RuneQuest (MRQ2, RQ6). I have always liked BRP and older versions of RuneQuest, but Combat Maneuvers made it even better, they gave more variety and spice to combat. Using a shield gives a big advantage.

-Rolemaster (RM2). I love the idea of splitting your combat skill into OB and DB, and how useful shields are. And criticals. I love them.

-The Riddle of Steel. For the same reasons I like Rolemaster. You have to split your combat dice pool into attack and defense, and the damage chart is very similar to RM criticals. I also like combat maneuvers.

-Usagi Yojimbo (Sanguine versions). The combat system is pure chanbara, enemies are knocked down with just one stroke (and sometimes your character is ).

-Capitán Alatriste RPG. Combat maneuvers. How dangerous combat feels.

From my list, one can infer the following points:

-I like combat maneuvers.

-I like criticals.

-It bugs me when shields are not useful.

Disclaimer: Although I have had mock combats in The Riddle of Steel, I must confess I have not actually played it. I have played the other games I mentioned.

we agree heavily.  I like shields, or 2 handed weapon use, or one handed weapon use, all to have very clear, obvious advantages.  

I like combat maneuvers and tactics.  I like it when a character can choose to set to receive a charge, or to try to charge, but also when their are skills to augment this.  

I dislike combat turns in my more advanced combat systems, preferring continuous initiative.

I like games that allow characters to get a lot better yes still be one-shotted by an orc arrow to the eye.  (sorry, but you asked).

I dislike blanket AC, but like avoidance and protection to be 2 separate things.

Quote from: estar;681610First of Harnmaster uses d100 like Rolemaster and Runequest. Like Runequest you are trying to roll under a skill and lower is better. There are four results crit success, success, failure, and crit failure. Any roll ending in a 0 or 5 is a critical. If lower than a crit success, if higher a crit failure.

It doesn't use hit points. Instead you take injury which subtracts from your skill. The bad effects of injury are handle through characteristic saves resulting from the wound you take form a hit. Previous injury makes this roll worse resulting in an increased chance of failure. The type of save depends on the injury that you just took. There are marginal, serious, and grievous injury.

Unconsciousness, stumbling, fumbling, amputation, and death are all a result of failed saves.  If somehow you keep managing to make your saves, your skill and physical characteristics (like movement, lifting, etc) keeps degrading from repeated injuries until you are failing or critical failing most of the time.

On reading the rules it seem complex but in practice it is very straight forward Columbia Games and N Robin Crossby (the original designer) came up with a brilliant presentation using two reference cards and a front loaded character sheet. The result is something that resolves way faster than any other RPG with tactically detailed combat like GURPS, D&D 4e, Rolemaster, Runequest, etc.

The attacker rolls his skill, the defender pick a reaction and roll his defense. The result is cross indexed and the resulting impact and hit location is rolled. The armor is subtracted and you look how much injury to roll and what saves need to be rolled. With the reference cards in hand the process is a snap. Plus the cards can be downloaded and printed so every player can have one.

It even resolves faster than high level classic D&D combat, and can match mid level D&D combat. By resolving I mean how much of the session you spend in combat versus non combat roleplaying. Although character generation is very much slower than D&D.

The rules without magic or religion are only $10 from here.

This is an actual play account of a Harnmaster session I ran.
http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2011/06/911-call-from-attic-repost.html

I went out of my way to acquire a copy of Harnmaster recently; I had remembered its magic system and setting as being exceptional but had forgotten how detailed its combat was.  The individuals wounds were a lot better at creating engagement and I have been thinking about trying to get some players to experiment.

The complete lack of a monster manual was unfortunate, though.

DCC's combat system is awesome.

Overall best that emulates the genre - Mekton II and Mekton Zeta, no other game can bring anime giant robot action like them.

Sheer lethality that surprises Players - Traveller 4 and Mongoose Traveller, I like how you have to not only hit, but also penetrate armor to cause damage, even though that does not matter so much when you are using a FGMP-15. Also, I just love watching the expressions change on Players' faces when they suddenly understand that Combat Is Dangerous.

Second best that emulates the genre - d6 Star Wars, it is fast and just deadly enough like the films and in a way that the d20 system could not match.

Most amusing critical and fumble tables - Rolemaster/MERP.

Most confusing to read but useable for modern weapons in d20 systems - d20 Traveller, I had to read through the rules multiple times before I got it, but once I used them in a combat they worked smoothly and elegantly. Far better than any other adaptation of the d20 system for modern firearms.