Hacking cyberware is the most brain-dead idea ever.  Yeah let's have our entire army, including infantry subject to hacking and jamming.  Not a single person who ever intended to take cyberware into combat would have it wireless.  Pants-on-head, drooling feebleminded idiot, lobotomized, FULL.RETARD.

Worst kind of science fiction, the one that any four year old could tell you is too fucking stupid to happen.

To be fair, there are lots of security holes these days that exist because of devices which really don't need an internet connection being provided with one anyway.

On the other hand. once you start getting into the business of actually putting these devices in your body you would doubtless start taking security far more seriously so yeah, cyberware with an on-by-default wifi connection is just idiotic.

Quote from: Warthur;681402To be fair, there are lots of security holes these days that exist because of devices which really don't need an internet connection being provided with one anyway.

On the other hand. once you start getting into the business of actually putting these devices in your body you would doubtless start taking security far more seriously so yeah, cyberware with an on-by-default wifi connection is just idiotic.

Then again, most people don't care to install a firewall on their Android cellphone, even if they keep Money Transfer Tokens there (I'm unsure how the term transfers into English, let's call it banking information).

From what my IT mate tells me, about 75 - 90% of modern viruses are written with Android as a target.

Admittedly yes, cyberware'd be much more serious of an issue - but it'd not be that far of a stretch to consider their "default" firewall to be something like Windows Firewall.

Quote from: Rincewind1;681448Then again, most people don't care to install a firewall on their Android cellphone, even if they keep Money Transfer Tokens there (I'm unsure how the term transfers into English, let's call it banking information).

From what my IT mate tells me, about 75 - 90% of modern viruses are written with Android as a target.

Admittedly yes, cyberware'd be much more serious of an issue - but it'd not be that far of a stretch to consider their "default" firewall to be something like Windows Firewall.

Why would they have a wireless system to begin with?  The whole concept of a wireless implant is for communication through flesh.  The entire Shadowrun cyberware paradigm rests on ASIST, basically a neural interface.  When I can transmit information through the client's own nervous system or have actually added wires to the client's nervous system, then an interface port would be the logical way to access diagnostic info rather than hackable wireless.

It's a transhumanist trope that every new technology that affects the human body is going to be automatically embraced no matter how radical, illogical or impractical.  Get your pie-in-the-sky TH wankfest out of my dystopian cyberpunk you farging bastages.

I don't mind wireless. It makes sense for communication, for drones, for that kind of stuff.

Yeah wiring other things up to wireless is kinda strange, unless of course extra wiring cost essence...

Then I could see a wireless smartlink, but only then

Quote from: CRKrueger;681468Why would they have a wireless system to begin with?  The whole concept of a wireless implant is for communication through flesh.  The entire Shadowrun cyberware paradigm rests on ASIST, basically a neural interface.  When I can transmit information through the client's own nervous system or have actually added wires to the client's nervous system, then an interface port would be the logical way to access diagnostic info rather than hackable wireless.

It's a transhumanist trope that every new technology that affects the human body is going to be automatically embraced no matter how radical, illogical or impractical.  Get your pie-in-the-sky TH wankfest out of my dystopian cyberpunk you farging bastages.

They DO have the option of shutting the wireless options of your cyberware off.  

JG

Quote from: Silverlion;681502I don't mind wireless. It makes sense for communication, for drones, for that kind of stuff.

Yeah wiring other things up to wireless is kinda strange, unless of course extra wiring cost essence...

Then I could see a wireless smartlink, but only then

In all honesty, the essence thing bugs me more in Shadowrun than most other things. I can maybe see it for implants in the brain, but come on, more or less nobody seriously believes that if you lose your arm you lose part of your soul.

Quote from: Warthur;681551In all honesty, the essence thing bugs me more in Shadowrun than most other things. I can maybe see it for implants in the brain, but come on, more or less nobody seriously believes that if you lose your arm you lose part of your soul.

Metaphysics was not the strong suit of many cyberpunk authors ...

Quote from: CRKrueger;6758871st Edition - Glorious Mess
2nd Edition - The Best
3rd Edition - Like GURPS, HERO or 3.5 with all options
4th Edition - Boy do I miss the FASA guys.

Quote from: KrakaJak;6759691e 2e and 3e a very similar in style and increasingly complicated to play as the editions go up. 3e is especially fiddly and easily broken by a min-maxing player. I agree that out of these 3, 2e is probably the best of the bunch. They are all kind of messy as far as rulesets go.

Sounds A LOT like D&D

Quote from: J Arcane;681554Metaphysics was not the strong suit of many cyberpunk authors ...

True that.

I mean, I can see why they'd include that sort of mechanic - otherwise there'd be literally no reason not to get all the cyberwear you can possibly afford, which starts getting into a transhumanist sort of thing rather than the crazy mashup of organic and cyber you tend to associate with cyberpunk. But it seems a clumsy way to do it.

Quote from: Warthur;681592True that.

I mean, I can see why they'd include that sort of mechanic - otherwise there'd be literally no reason not to get all the cyberwear you can possibly afford, which starts getting into a transhumanist sort of thing rather than the crazy mashup of organic and cyber you tend to associate with cyberpunk. But it seems a clumsy way to do it.

Yeah, I'm still debating how I'll handle it for my AR/SR hybrid.  

The way magic works in AR, it's a combination of life force and mental will, so there is an argument to be made either way, but divine prayer is fully the result of the heavenly powers so there's really no good excuse for it to have any effect at all.

And I'm not sold on the CP2020 solution either. I get the principle, and I suppose it's possible that cyberpsychosis could happen, but on the flipside, it's once again basically saying that someone with an artificial limb is one step closer to pure inhuman psychopathy. Which is just bananas.

I don't think Essence loss means "loss of soul" per se, or doesn't anymore. I think its more "less magical connection." Which might make sense if living bodies are best at channeling magic.

Quote from: J Arcane;681596And I'm not sold on the CP2020 solution either. I get the principle, and I suppose it's possible that cyberpsychosis could happen, but on the flipside, it's once again basically saying that someone with an artificial limb is one step closer to pure inhuman psychopathy. Which is just bananas.

Yeah, I think you might get more traction if you say there's social disapproval of cyberwear, but on the other hand:

- How many times have you seen the media demonising people with artificial limbs recently?
- Does a roleplaying penalty which requires the GM to remember to apply social disapproval really counterbalance the advantages the cyberwear gives? Where do you draw the line between the social disapproval being too much to be worth it and too minor to be an effective deterrent against going all-cyber?
- If you're a superhuman cyborg, would the social disapproval of squishy meatbags really mean that much to you? Wouldn't you be out for the approval of fellow cyborgs (who presumably wouldn't share the prejudice of the rest of society because if they did they wouldn't have 'borged themselves in the first place)?

Quote from: Silverlion;681615I don't think Essence loss means "loss of soul" per se, or doesn't anymore. I think its more "less magical connection." Which might make sense if living bodies are best at channeling magic.

Except people have made artificial tools - wands, idols, totems, magic circles, and so forth - precisely for the purpose of channeling magic for about as long as they've believed in magic. Hell, crafting artificial tools to enhance shit is basically a defining feature of humanity - there's more or less no sphere of human activity which doesn't have its own set of accessories and tools and gear. (Even with something as simple as public speaking, you have flash cards, you have the speaker's clothing, you have all the stuff that's gone into the actual presentation and all the work you've done speaking in front of a mirror or into a tape recorder in order to perfect your delivery.)

Given that one of the basic ideas behind the whole cyberwear thing is the distinction between "human" and "tool" dissolving, wouldn't it be more thematically appropriate - not to mention opening the door to a groaning great heap of cool ideas for adventures and scenarios and setting features - for there to be an entire category of cyberwear dedicated to enhancing magic? I just think it's kind of weird that Shadowrun almost embraces this utterly false and bullshitty "magic is all rural and natural, science is all urban and sterile" dichotomy when you could have magical cyberarms with trapped demons inside, cybernetic third eyes that see into the occult parts of the Matrix, and so on and so forth.

Quote- If you're a superhuman cyborg, would the social disapproval of squishy meatbags really mean that much to you? Wouldn't you be out for the approval of fellow cyborgs (who presumably wouldn't share the prejudice of the rest of society because if they did they wouldn't have 'borged themselves in the first place)?

In fairness, this part is one of the justifications used by CP2020 to explain cyberpsychosis, IIRC.