[Any] What, in your mind, is the difference between a Cleric and a Paladin?

LibraryLass · August 13, 2013, 02:05:18 AM

Let's face it, they're pretty similar archetypes. This is something I tend to get a bit of a block on, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on how they're different.

James Gillen · August 13, 2013, 02:49:01 AM

One is more militarized than the other. This is explicitly the case in the Warcraft material, where priests in the Church of the Holy Light do not use heavy armor or weapons (as opposed to D&D) and they noticed that maybe they needed people who could defend the community and not just heal it.

JG

Soylent Green · August 13, 2013, 03:07:04 AM

I think the Paladin should be an advanced or Prestige class, something you work towards or earn as a result of your deeds and not something start off as at level 1.

Or to put it other terms, for all the other classes the sentence "Yes, he is a cleric/thief/wizard/fighter, just not a very competent one." works fine. The same does not work with Paladins.

jadrax · August 13, 2013, 03:25:54 AM

Paladins use swords, Clerics use morningstars.

noisms · August 13, 2013, 03:59:52 AM

A paladin is a holy warrior. A cleric is an adventuring holy man.

LibraryLass · August 13, 2013, 05:59:15 AM

Quote from: jadrax;680678Paladins use swords, Clerics use morningstars.

This is a non-answer.

UberMunchkin · August 13, 2013, 06:01:24 AM

For me a Cleric is primarily a Priest who has had some martial training along with his divine studies, a Paladin is a Holy Warrior who has had some magical and priestly training alongside his martial studies.

The_Rooster · August 13, 2013, 06:12:12 AM

Cleric

Paladin:

Nexus · August 13, 2013, 07:32:00 AM

A cleric is primarily a priest, a holy man and theologian that has some battle training, maybe experience but their primary focus is serving their god/church in a non military fashion. A paladin, otoh, is a warrior who's great faith and dedication has earned them the favor of their deity and a position of authority and honor in the church.

Edit:IMO and my general default when I do a classical fantasy setting

YourSwordisMine · August 13, 2013, 07:38:33 AM

For me, the Cleric is the Militant arm of the Church. Defenders of the Faith

Instead of the Paladin, it should have been the Priest class. Healers, and shepherds of the flock as it were. A lot of the Paladin abilities make more sense for a Priest.

My ideas:

Hit Dice: Same as Magic User
Divine Casting from Level 1
Lay on Hands
Protection from Evil
Detect Evil
Turning
Limited Melee Weapons: Staff, Club, Sling
No Armor

The Priest would rely more on Charisma than Wisdom.

These are just rough ideas.

flyerfan1991 · August 13, 2013, 07:42:19 AM

A cleric is the equivalent of any old priest who can fight (Friar Tuck), but a paladin is akin to a member in a military religious order (Templars, Hospitaliers, Teutonic Knights). The classic D&D equivalent of a Paladin was Sir Galahad, and the equivalent of an ex-Paladin was Sir Lancelot.

jibbajibba · August 13, 2013, 07:42:27 AM

Clerics ought to be a prestigue class as has been pointed out.

Either you get to be a paladine becuase you started as a fighter and were good and true and just etc or you get to be one becuase you were a pirest who took a martial path.

The idea that clerics arer priets and paladins are warriors doesn't really work as clerics are very martial priests, certainly my local imman and vicar don't don armour and smite infidels.

the 2e priest where you get more priestly priests who are closer to wizards and more martial priests who are closer to Holy order knights works far better then you get a continum from Non military priest with weak combat and more spells all the way through the druid type to martial priests with good combat and few spells to Paladins at the top end.

I also don't mind Paladins being of any god, so a martial unholy warrior of Tiamat, or Hades work for me provided they fit with the setting.

One Horse Town · August 13, 2013, 07:47:05 AM

Clerics are the will and Paladins are the way.
Clerics are the scalpel and Paladins are the knife.
Clerics are the voice and Paladins are the hands.
Clerics are the shepherds and Paladins are the sheep-dogs.
Clerics are the missionaries and Paladins are those on a mission.
Clerics are the defenders and Paladins are the attackers.

and loads more stuff that is starting to sound more pretentious the more i write. Anyhoo, that's how i see the patron God as viewing the difference between the two and how they are used.

jadrax · August 13, 2013, 07:54:34 AM

Quote from: LibraryLass;680695This is a non-answer.

No, honestly it is the only real difference between the two.

They are both heavily armored spell-casting holy warriors, the only actual substantial difference is the weaponry.

The Traveller · August 13, 2013, 07:57:37 AM

Quote from: One Horse Town;680707Clerics are the will and Paladins are the way.
Clerics are the scalpel and Paladins are the knife.
Clerics are the voice and Paladins are the hands.
Clerics are the shepherds and Paladins are the sheep-dogs.
Clerics are the missionaries and Paladins are those on a mission.
Clerics are the defenders and Paladins are the attackers.

and loads more stuff that is starting to sound more pretentious the more i write.

If you say so, I'm still going to steal it as a litany for a hawkish new faith spreading downwards in my neverending valley campaign though.