Quote from: Exploderwizard;677817The thing to understand about rulings is that they do not replace rules in any kind of total capacity (at least not for me).

The basic rules are the foundation of the building. Rulings serve as mortar to filling in any gaps and cracks left by the basic rules.

The first thread you linked is an example of a situation where the rules already provided the answer. The player was trying to gain advantage by appealing to a ruling that IMHO didn't require a ruling.

The second thread is a good example of why I DO believe there are some rules for GMs. These rules aren't system specific and have more to do with the social contract and general fair play.

That is one of the funny things about this place.  You all don't actually agree on what it means.

Quote from: Sommerjon;678254That is one of the funny things about this place.  You all don't actually agree on what it means.

Who disagrees with what he just said? Because the phrase comes from one specific place and has always had one specific meaning. I've never seen anyone give a different one.

Quote from: Sommerjon;678254That is one of the funny things about this place.  You all don't actually agree on what it means.

Why on earth would we?

That's the beauty of having your own brain and differing experiences and expectations.

Quote from: Sommerjon;678254That is one of the funny things about this place.  You all don't actually agree on what it means.

Please clarify the exact "it" you are talking about. Thanks.

Quote from: One Horse Town;678319Why on earth would we?

That's the beauty of having your own brain and differing experiences and expectations.

Well it does make discourse a little trickier than it might be.

Quote from: LibraryLass;678568Well it does make discourse a little trickier than it might be.

Owl?

Quote from: One Horse Town;678585Owl?

Banana

Quote from: One Horse Town;678319Why on earth would we?

That's the beauty of having your own brain and differing experiences and expectations.

We're all individuals!

Quote from: Exploderwizard;678327Please clarify the exact "it" you are talking about. Thanks.

Rulings not rules.

Quote from: Sommerjon;678740Rulings not rules.

This is the long and the short of it...

Quote from: The Old School PrimerMost of the time in old-style gaming, you don’t use a rule; you make a ruling. It’s easy to understand that sentence, but it takes a flash of insight to really “get it.” The players can describe any action, without needing to look at a character sheet to see if they “can” do it. The referee, in turn, uses common sense to decide what happens or rolls a die if he thinks there’s some random element involved, and then the game moves on. This is why characters have so few numbers on the character sheet, and why they have so few specified abilities.

There's no other definition. If someone's saying any different they're mistaken. There does seem to be a number of people who don't "get it", though these tend IME to be the same people who obsess about mechanical balance and are pissed off that 4th edition was cancelled; in other words people who don't like or have a grudge towards old school gaming. There's also a few of the "You Can Never Say Any Edition of D&D Does Anything That 4th Edition Isn't As Good At Or I'll Take It As A Personal Attack!"-types at TBP.

Quote from: Sommerjon;678740Rulings not rules.

See post # 295.

To expand a bit more. The more rules volume and complexity there is, the fewer the amount of rulings there will be.

With this increase in rules volume comes a few disadvantages.

1) Once rules glut gets to a certain point, it becomes more difficult to remember when to use them and looking stuff up bogs down play.

2) Rules begin to dominate play. The game becomes more about what a player can do via the rules than about what the players are actually doing in the campaign.

3) Flexibility is lessened. Instead of the rules being a definition of what isn't generally possible, they become a defining list of what IS possible. The net result is a rules culture that says if the rules didn't think of it then neither can you.

4) Content bloat, unchecked, can lead to some rules that in general, aren't bad, but followed to the letter lead to some ridiculous results .


There is no rules system that can prevent someone from being a dick. Games that promise some sort of inherent balance that will somehow prevent this are selling snake oil. So long as the game is being played by people, the majority of game balance will have to come from those people.

Personally, if a game is written with the assumption that everyone will be a dick just because they can be, I won't like it very much because I don't care for the assumptions that it makes about me or those I choose to game with.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;6788352) Rules begin to dominate play. The game becomes more about what a player can do via the rules than about what the players are actually doing in the campaign.

This is a huge issue for me. I play rpg's to see what happens to the characters in the campaign. The rules are not the game to me; the rules are a tool to facilitate seeing the events of the campaign unfold as unobtrusively as possible.



If I want to play rules, I can enjoy a nice fleet battle in Star Fleet Battles.
Or chess. Chess rocks.

Quote from: Bill;678840This is a huge issue for me. I play rpg's to see what happens to the characters in the campaign. The rules are not the game to me; the rules are a tool to facilitate seeing the events of the campaign unfold as unobtrusively as possible.

This is why I no longer run system that fixate players attention on builds, what kinds of "stuff" they get at each new level, and the numbers they can crunch via mechanical masturbation, as the dominating focus of the game.

Quote from: Bill;678840This is a huge issue for me. I play rpg's to see what happens to the characters in the campaign. The rules are not the game to me; the rules are a tool to facilitate seeing the events of the campaign unfold as unobtrusively as possible.



If I want to play rules, I can enjoy a nice fleet battle in Star Fleet Battles.
Or chess. Chess rocks.

No doubt but its the right balance that gets everyone tripped up. Nothing shocking in that statement but always a fine line to tread.

Quote from: Willmark;678866No doubt but its the right balance that gets everyone tripped up. Nothing shocking in that statement but always a fine line to tread.

In my experience many games drift toward rules becoming intrusive.