I like to think of this more as, "They're letting people who don't do encounters buy the modules now" rather than just limiting it to free swag for those who run the games in the store events or who game the system to get copies for sale at outrageous prices on Ebay.

Arguing about paying for these modules for some weird reason feels to me like another entitlement tantrum. If you like D&D ...and 4E.... but you don't contribute any money into the game, then one shouldn't act too surprised at it's eventual disappearance (this ignores all the other reasons 4E is going away of course).

Anyway, I've appreciated that Paizo lets me at least buy the PDFs of the PFS modules without being a member for my own use if I see fit. If WotC actually continues to let me, a guy who likes to collect the modules without participating in the local marketing event club, I'll be happy.

As for the module quality and WotC: That's another can of worms. I'll reserve judgement for the actual book when it appears; I like to think that with DDN that's one lesson they've learned, and a high quality introductory series of modules will prove it. Time will tell.

Quote from: RPGPundit;670218Again, do you know if this is a permanent change, or just for this particular case?

I'd have to dig around, but iirc from the announcement they seemed to indicate this was the new approach going forward; it was not being pitched as a one-off.

If it is 5 adventures, then that's clearly a kind of test-bubble.  If it fails miserably, they have the cover that it was just for that purpose. If people accept it, they can decide the next series will be for-pay as well.

Quote from: RPGPundit;670642If it is 5 adventures, then that's clearly a kind of test-bubble.  If it fails miserably, they have the cover that it was just for that purpose. If people accept it, they can decide the next series will be for-pay as well.

Which means it will FAIL in the long-run.

People want either 'free' or affordable as their entry point to gaming.

Best 3 introductory to RPG things I've seen in the past few years:

The PATHFINDER Beginner's/intro box set.

SAVAGE WORLDS Digest/Explorer editions...

and GURPS 'Lite' that FREE.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;670655Which means it will FAIL in the long-run.

People want either 'free' or affordable as their entry point to gaming.

Best 3 introductory to RPG things I've seen in the past few years:

The PATHFINDER Beginner's/intro box set.

SAVAGE WORLDS Digest/Explorer editions...

and GURPS 'Lite' that FREE.


- Ed C.

It sure seems set at an affordable price to me.  Why do you think this is not affordable at $25 for a 96 page hardcover book (plus DM screen and illustrated folder)??

In fact, isn't it cheaper than the Pathfinder box you mentioned above?

And isn't it about the same price as the Savage World's Explorer's Edition you mentioned?

It seems to me your definition of "affordable" varies with whether or not you like the game in question...

Quote from: Mistwell;670661It sure seems set at an affordable price to me.  Why do you think this is not affordable at $25 for a 96 page hardcover book (plus DM screen and illustrated folder)??

In fact, isn't it cheaper than the Pathfinder box you mentioned above?

And isn't it about the same price as the Savage World's Explorer's Edition you mentioned?

It seems to me your definition of "affordable" varies with whether or not you like the game in question...

Though I agree that the price isn't really that ridiculous, Savage Worlds Deluxe Explorer's edition is like 10 dollars retail, 9 dollars on amazon. You have it on the Hardcover version, which is identical rules, but in a 8.5x10 hardcover instead of the 6x9 softcover.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;670679Though I agree that the price isn't really that ridiculous, Savage Worlds Deluxe Explorer's edition is like 10 dollars retail, 9 dollars on amazon. You have it on the Hardcover version, which is identical rules, but in a 8.5x10 hardcover instead of the 6x9 softcover.

Ok, is it just me, or is this magically appearing 2 posts above the person I'm quoting. It looks like I'm a time traveler or something

Quote from: Koltar;669936Because of the situation described in this thread - I might have Wednesdays all to myself and my STAR TREK campaign.

The two GMs at our 'weekly encounters' - don't likely want to pay the 30 bucks.

No DMs , means no 'encounters' on Wednesdays...


- Ed C.

Our 4E DM has begun an Encounters-style game of 4E (he prefers it to Pathfinder although he's also our PFS GM) as a fill-in. Mind that the store we have it at hasn't actually received the July season of Encounters for some reason, hence the need to fill in.

If we have to pay for Encounters I may just suggest running "game of the month" for a while, with each of our regular players running a game we'd like to demo (e.g. Cosmic Patrol, MechWarrior, Traveller and so forth), whether it's an in-production game or not.

If we do this I plan to run a couple of Bedrock Games's RPGs if at all I can. Dunno how successful I'll be getting everyone to try it but I'll have tried.

Quote from: Koltar;670655Which means it will FAIL in the long-run.

People want either 'free' or affordable as their entry point to gaming.

Best 3 introductory to RPG things I've seen in the past few years:

The PATHFINDER Beginner's/intro box set.

SAVAGE WORLDS Digest/Explorer editions...

and GURPS 'Lite' that FREE.

How many people start gaming by sitting down and DMing Encounters? I thought Encounters was about experienced DMs running games for newbies?

If there's 5 adventures in the set that comes to $6 per adventure, which seems affordable for the DM. If the DM really can't afford it, ask the players for a dollar contribution each per adventure and you've soon made up the gap. If a dollar isn't well within someone's affordability range, they probably aren't a potential new customer.

Quote from: Warthur;670743If a dollar isn't well within someone's affordability range, they probably aren't a potential new customer.

Yep.

(Additional: if I wanted to be really snarky, I'd suggest that a DM who couldn't afford to spring $30 for that set needs to start thinking about getting a weekend job that actually pays money, rather than being a free advertiser for Wizards and their FLGS.)

Quote from: Warthur;670743If a dollar isn't well within someone's affordability range, they probably aren't a potential new customer.

And when is the last time you paid a dollar for the privilege to sit in on a tabletop game with no return offered?

Let me guess, that is the standard operating procedure in your neighbourhood, and everyone does it.

Counterpoint: if someone says "faugh, I can go play a tabletop RPG with some other group for free", they're clearly already into tabletop RPGs so strictly speaking aren't the crowd D&D Encounters is pitched to.

If you want to criticise this set, then a really credible argument would be "D&D Encounters is supposed to be about getting new blood into the hobby by running demo games for newbies, and whilst it makes sense that a newbie will sign up for one two hour demo it seems unlikely that a novice will want to sign up for a 5-adventure campaign on a whim."

That, right there, is the issue with this product: it's constructed as a multi-adventure series, which is what necessitates the price tag in the first place (because you can't expect Wizards to give away a bundle comprising what's in that set for free to any Encounters DM who requests it). In general demo games are meant to be just that: demo games to pique your interest and convince you to buy in, not an investment of time and/or money in the first place. Games Workshop, indeed, usually limits you to one demo game; obviously they can't rigidly enforce that worldwide, but stroll up to the same branch and ask the same staff member for a second or third or fourth demo game of Warhammer 40,000 and you won't exactly get very far.

As part of a series of demo games for beginners, the product makes very little sense. We can conclude one of two things from this:

- Wizards have gone completely out of their tiny little minds. In principle possible, though in practice a lot of their fumbles have involved ideas being badly implemented from the start (see the miserable failure of the Virtual Tabletop, a screwup which sank their entire strategy for 4E). Corporate inertia would usually be against screwing around with the Encounters program like this provided the program was working as intended. The operative term being working as intended.

- Alternately, we can infer that Wizards have discovered (or at the very least believe) that the program is no longer working as intended. Nobody who isn't Wizards is really in a position to make much of a call here, and it's possible Wizards themselves rely on hearsay - I don't know how much data they collect from participating DMs and game stores. But I think it is entirely possible that there are a sizable number of people out there who are actually established gamers and who play Encounters, despite the fact that it's not really pitched to old hands. I am aware of several groups running Encounters which comprise no new players at all, just oldsters exploiting the availability of freebies - in fact, I can't remember the last time I saw or heard of a new player dabbling in Encounters. That might or might not be generally the case, but if it is a widespread issue then the program as a whole isn't working as intended (though it may well be working exactly as intended in some locales). Under such circumstances I can fully understand why Wizards would change their tack on how Encounters releases work.

Well, admittedly, if the information about goodies such as dice is true regarding this package, 20 d20 dice alone are worth 30 bucks, at least here.

Quote from: Rincewind1;670949Well, admittedly, if the information about goodies such as dice is true regarding this package, 20 d20 dice alone are worth 30 bucks, at least here.

What else does it come with?