Quote from: Zachary The First;664199So, I guess my next question is: How complicated is RQ6 to run and play? I really like what you're saying about the special combat effects (which seemingly negates my concern over 27 combat options, but I've also heard folks say it's a pretty massive tome that can be daunting. But here, it sounds as if it's pretty common-sense overall.

It's a big book but that's because it's a very complete book - you get a lot of magic, you get a lot of monsters, you get a lot of toolkit stuff.

There are some very nice official combat cheat sheets there which really go the extra mile in making the combat options easy to handle. With those to hand I think it'd be a breeze to run and play.

The only advantage I'd say RQ6 has over Legend is price. You can get the core Legend book very, very cheaply. On the other hand, you get what you pay for (Mongoose Matt rewriting RQ2 in order to get a BRP-based fantasy RPG onto the market after losing the RQ2 licence.) It's not flat-out bad, but it was designed by the same guys as RQ6 and RQ6 is most definitely a refinement of it, and much more complete-in-one-book at that.

Quote from: Killfuck Soulshitter;664189Surprised no-one has mentioned Chaosium's Magic World.

It's a complete, in-print BRP fantasy game in one volume, smaller and less expensive than RQ6 or the Big Gold Book.

On reading the OP, this immediately came to mind as well for me.  

Quote from: K Peterson;664217The phone app is mentioned here, but it's Android only. (As far as I'm aware).

Darn it!  I just got an iPhone and would to have this app.

Quote from: gleichman;664213You should just play Age of Heroes (d100 with strike/parry/damage system), shatter all your dreams of coping with game systems, burn out and find a new hobby. You'll be happier in the long run

How does your Rpg compare with some of these other d100 systems/variants? In terms of the qualifiers that Zachary gave: rules complexity, limited magic, streamlined combat, character customization, and application for traditional fantasy.

As a side-note: I could swear that you've posted things like, "Don't buy my game", "It's only intended for my play-group", and "it's not well-written", in the past.

Quote from: K Peterson;664226How does your Rpg compare with some of these other d100 systems/variants? In terms of the qualifiers that Zachary gave: rules complexity, limited magic, streamlined combat, character customization, and application for traditional fantasy.

Compared to BRP (I can only really speak to early versions btw), there is no doubt it's more complex. In fact it contains many of the bugbears people mentioned in the thread about the most complex games a person has played. Had more people read it, I'm sure it would have appeared in that thread.

Combat:
The core combat process is similar to BRP (strike, parry, damage with location) but there are more modifiers as the attacker directly affects the ability of the defender (i.e. it scales). This will result in more addition and subtraction than BRP. Think HERO OCV and DCV but applied to more values and in double digits. (Reason 1 why I say no one but my groups would be willing to play by these rules).

There's division as well, but that existed to the same extent in BRP.

While there are combat maneuvers they are situational in utility (i.e. are sub-optimal unless the tactical conditions are favorable) and thus not part of every attack and defense, so on this point it may be less complex than newer versions of BRP.

Magic
Magic is in general more constrained than say D&D and the game system isn't built on its presence. It can be ignored or used in whole or part. It also runs across a range of power levels and flavors.


character customization
Characters can be extensively customized. There's a 'class' framework (more like profession actually) that defines those areas where the character excels, but the option is present to do nearly anything one would wish *short of doing*everything*.

Thus a 'Wizard' could use a sword if he wishes to invest in it. He just won't do so as well as an otherwise identical 'Warrior' does for free.

Managing this and maintaining its balance for a multiple generation campaign and for the entire lifespan (including immortal ones) of the characters results in a complex character generation roughly on par with say a HERO System skill purchase subsystem.

I consider this section to be the most complex in the rules, and very few people rule the type of campaign that would need the produced results. (Reason 2 why I say no one but my groups would be willing to play by these rules).


application for traditional fantasy
It was designed to recreate traditional high fantasy- Middle Earth (all the ages, not just the end of the Third), Prydain, Jason and the Argonauts, etc.

A goal I take seriously, see my thread on Genre Simulation.

As a side note, I consider the core rulebooks to be usual in how complete it is. One would have to dive rather deeply into very specific areas (like say land and keep management, naval warfare, or mass combat) to need an expansion. That it manages this with 262 pages highlights that it's a pure rulebook without setting or fluff.

Quote from: K Peterson;664226As a side-note: I could swear that you've posted things like, "Don't buy my game", "It's only intended for my play-group", and "it's not well-written", in the past.

Indeed, that's why I put a at the end of my post and suggested that using the rules would result in burn out and a change of hobbies.

A couple of people here (John Morrow, Bloody Stupid Johnson) have actually read the rules, and I'm sure they'd agree with me on this point. They may have recovered from the insanity inducing effort by now...

Quote from: gleichman;664235

Quote from: K Peterson;664226How does your Rpg compare with some of these other d100 systems/variants? In terms of the qualifiers that Zachary gave: rules complexity, limited magic, streamlined combat, character customization, and application for traditional fantasy.

Quote from: K Peterson;664226Compared to BRP (I can only really speak to early versions btw), there is no doubt it's more complex. In fact it contains many of the bugbears people mentioned in the thread about the most complex games a person has played. Had more people read it, I'm sure it would have appeared in that thread.

Combat:
The core combat process is similar to BRP (strike, parry, damage with location) but there are more modifiers as the attacker directly affects the ability of the defender (i.e. it scales). This will result in more addition and subtraction than BRP. Think HERO OCV and DCV but applied to more values and in double digits. (Reason 1 why I say no one but my groups would be willing to play by these rules).

There's division as well, but that existed to the same extent in BRP.

While there are combat maneuvers they are situational in utility (i.e. are sub-optimal unless the tactical conditions are favorable) and thus not part of every attack and defense, so on this point it may be less complex than newer versions of BRP.

Magic
Magic is in general more constrained than say D&D and the game system isn't built on its presence. It can be ignored or used in whole or part. It also runs across a range of power levels and flavors.


character customization
Characters can be extensively customized. There's a 'class' framework (more like profession actually) that defines those areas where the character excels, but the option is present to do nearly anything one would wish *short of doing*everything*.

Thus a 'Wizard' could use a sword if he wishes to invest in it. He just won't do so as well as an otherwise identical 'Warrior' does for free.

Managing this and maintaining its balance for a multiple generation campaign and for the entire lifespan (including immortal ones) of the characters results in a complex character generation roughly on par with say a HERO System skill purchase subsystem.

I consider this section to be the most complex in the rules, and very few people rule the type of campaign that would need the produced results. (Reason 2 why I say no one but my groups would be willing to play by these rules).


application for traditional fantasy
It was designed to recreate traditional high fantasy- Middle Earth (all the ages, not just the end of the Third), Prydain, Jason and the Argonauts, etc.

A goal I take seriously, see my thread on Genre Simulation.

As a side note, I consider the core rulebooks to be usual in how complete it is. One would have to dive rather deeply into very specific areas (like say land and keep management, naval warfare, or mass combat) to need an expansion. That it manages this with 262 pages highlights that it's a pure rulebook without setting or fluff.




Indeed, that's why I put a at the end of my post and suggested that using the rules would result in burn out and a change of hobbies.

A couple of people here (John Morrow, Bloody Stupid Johnson) have actually read the rules, and I'm sure they'd agree with me on this point. They may have recovered from the insanity inducing effort by now...

this may be one of my favorite posts from you.  I understand much more.  I will buy and read them, since they are more similar to my own design and goals.

Quote from: LordVreeg;664243this may be one of my favorite posts from you.  I understand much more.  I will buy and read them, since they are more similar to my own design and goals.

Don't say I didn't try and a warn you

Drop me a line and let me know what you think, what parts were unclear and if the magic lists were interesting or boring. Was the dog training rules worth having? That sort of thing. No need to burn a lot of time on it, but I would love a few tidbits.

Quote from: Killfuck Soulshitter;664189Surprised no-one has mentioned Chaosium's Magic World.

It's a complete, in-print BRP fantasy game in one volume, smaller and less expensive than RQ6 or the Big Gold Book.

I much prefer it to OpenQuest, better production values for one thing.

There were passing references to it in several posts, including one of mine. That said, yes, Magic World is a nice, concise fantasy game based on BRP. I bought the PDF and a print copy; well worth the money.

Quote from: Zachary The First;664199No, seriously, that's an awesome overview.

So, I guess my next question is: How complicated is RQ6 to run and play? I really like what you're saying about the special combat effects (which seemingly negates my concern over 27 combat options, but I've also heard folks say it's a pretty massive tome that can be daunting. But here, it sounds as if it's pretty common-sense overall.

Would not having a lot of BRP experience actually be a perk, as you seem to suggest in your last part there?

I reckon that it has enough of a learning curve and combat can have enough moving parts that you would want to start small. As you get more experienced, there are plenty of ways to simplify running the system. Despite what people might think, you don't have to track every single action point for every single character.

For example, just because you can build every NPC exactly the same as you do a PC, doesn't mean you should. There's a section for rabble and underlings which shows how to minimise the record keeping which, name notwithstanding can pretty be used for any combatant unless it's someone pretty major.

If you want a feel for how the system might look in action, the first scenario in the Book of Quests is available on the website as a free download.

As to previous experience, the people who struggle most with RQ6 tend to be those who have played a lot in systems where balance is a central design goal, where it is easy to compare relative threats and where game mastery is an element. RQ6 is most definitely not a 'fair' game.

OQ2 and if there is no magic; double the hitpoints. Simply state as s Fiat that only some very few people have magic.  Or. Age of Shadows if you want overtly Tolkien like.
These are the low-medium options.
RQ6 and BRP or LEGEND are medium-high. Legend is very cheap.

I have converted some srd monsters to OQ on my BBS. if you feel the need it's quite fun.

Here are 2: http://www.gamingtavern.eu/MonsterWorlde/RustMonster.pdf
http://www.gamingtavern.eu/MonsterWorlde/Owlbear.pdf

Then I got too busy and didn't do anymore, ;-(

Man, you guys are being extremely helpful, thank you. Right now, I'm waffling simply because so many of these games sound like they have good features. Normally, I'd just mash it all up, but I don't really have the funds for that.

OK, a couple of other questions:

--Is there any decent support material for RQ 6? Honestly, it doesn't sound as if it needs much. Any plans for future "core" stuff? I didn't see any at Design Mechanism.

--RQ 6 has Passions, right? Is it close to Pendragon, and can anyone give me an example of how they'd come up in play?

--If I went the BRP route, would it be worth waiting for the new Classic Fantasy? Opinion seems divided on that book.

--Has anyone actually done a review/content review for Magic World? Info appears skimpy.

Quote from: Warthur;664219There are some very nice official combat cheat sheets there which really go the extra mile in making the combat options easy to handle. With those to hand I think it'd be a breeze to run and play.

Are these sheets in that GM Pack, or elsewhere? Mind a link if elsewhere?

Loz and Pete will support RQ6, and I think that will mean back to Glorantha, although there will be another fantasy setting along soonish.
There is the Book of Quests now, and frankly that and the main book will keep you busy for a year. Then they'll have Monster Island out.
Remember also that effectively all these games are interlinked so a Legend scenario  will work with RQ6, or vice versa.

OpenQuest has Savage North which is fun (if a little lethal when I ran it), and Here Be Dragons along soon which will be a blast (friends wrote it).

Legend has Age of Treason, and many of the older MRQII Glorantha books are still on DriveThru (sold by Design Mechanism) now. The revised Spider God's Bride is *meant* to be fixed now and offers up Howard/Ashton-Smith style gaming for d100 (e.g. Conan..)

Magic World is good, and there are a lot of BRP scenarios and settings you can buy and download from Chaosium.

Frankly, Classic Fantasy did nowt for me, it's rekitting BRP to be D&D and why? I also suspect it'll return as a OpenQuest book.

Renaissance is just lovely and loads of stuff is being published, including the new Pirates and Dragons, which might scratch your itch.

However, it's time to choose. None will hurt you, all are close so you can switch away with the same characters later, and most have stuff to play, even if published for one of the others.

But like you I waver.. I said OQ last time for ease and cost, now I would say for utter cheapness go AoS or Renaissance, and yet I kinda know Magic World will best meet your sensibilities..

However.

Rule 1 in BRP. Combat is lethal. Go easy on PCs. Let opponents be weak or run away, or even kind and capture and ransom losers.

Quote from: Zachary The First;664461OK, a couple of other questions:

--Is there any decent support material for RQ 6? Honestly, it doesn't sound as if it needs much. Any plans for future "core" stuff? I didn't see any at Design Mechanism.

No core, but setting books are planned. I guess they'll introduce some tweaks in these(chargen, magic etc), but you're right. You really don't need more rules than what's already there. The free Firearms-PDF is worth grabbing.

Quote from: Zachary The First;664461--RQ 6 has Passions, right? Is it close to Pendragon, and can anyone give me an example of how they'd come up in play?

Passions can be a lot; a chararcter's drive, morals(or lack thereof), fears or ingrained cultural values. They can be used as straight-forward skill(test(and fail) your "Family honor" to avoid braining your brother's murderer") or used to boost your skill(add a percentage of "Family honor" to all skills when duelling the murderer)

Quote from: Zachary The First;664461--If I went the BRP route, would it be worth waiting for the new Classic Fantasy? Opinion seems divided on that book.

Maybe. The first edition is half a book, essentially the BRP-version of the Player's Handbook. As far as I can tell, Rodney is mothballing BRP and converting both released and unreleased material to Legend.

Quote from: Zachary The First;664461--Has anyone actually done a review/content review for Magic World? Info appears skimpy.

BRP Central is your friend.

Quote from: Zachary The First;664461Are these sheets in that GM Pack, or elsewhere? Mind a link if elsewhere?

They're in the back of the book, and in the GM-pack(free)

Excellent, thanks again!

Quote from: Zachary The First;664461--Is there any decent support material for RQ 6? Honestly, it doesn't sound as if it needs much. Any plans for future "core" stuff? I didn't see any at Design Mechanism.

There isn't any additional "core" support material, because the core book stands as very complete on it's own. It covers a lot of ground - frex: multiple spell systems, and an extensive monster 'manual'. There's not much necessary to add to it - from my perspective. (Unless you want something like a mass combat system or domain management. And you might be able to get that by plugging in the MRQ2 release, Empires).

The most recent/only supplement, Book of Quests is a "loose campaign" of sword & sorcery adventures. I would call it quite "decent" - but I'm biased since I wrote one of the adventures for it. (And, I think that Deleriad also contributed to it). I think there's a lot of value in it, and some quality adventures - whether you want to use the setting as-is, or strip out adventures to insert into your own campaign.

Monster Island is yet to be released. It's a "setting, sourcebook, and bestiary".

Quote from: ptingler;663896Given those requirements, I think your best bet is Magic World. It meets all of those requirements. I own the BRP Gold book, MRQ2, Legend, Runequest 6, OpenQuest 1, and Magic World and I think straight out of the box Magic World is the most like what you describe.

Agreed. Magic World fits all your requirements perfectly.