Which was the most mechanically complex game you ever participated in (playing, or GMing)?

And, importantly, did you like it?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;662968Which was the most mechanically complex game you ever participated in (playing, or GMing)?

And, importantly, did you like it?

RPGPundit

Space Opera, I hated it (although I've got some of the supplements for the Jeff Dee art and to mine for ideas). I will never play it again.

Although a special shout out needs to be given to Alernity's bullshit task resolution system which did nothing but slow the game down to a crawl whenever it was used.

And since you didn't specifically say RPGs, I will add that Star Fleet Battles is the most complex wargame I ever played. I also liked it, may God have mercy on my soul.

AD&D 2e.

My main problem with it wasnt so much its complication, but its overall non-intuitiveness.

I think this honor would be bestowed to Rolemaster with at least elements of Companions I, II, III, IV and VII involved, that I remember. There probably was some Arms Companion and Spell User's Companion mixed with this too, maybe some Companion V and VI, and perhaps more.

In any case, that was Rolemaster on steroids. The GM did a good job with the game, but he was handling stuff like keeping the character sheets up to date, bean-counting the details and all that. We would control our character's evolution and level up with the GM and stuff, but we would do it all together as a group with the GM, rather than separately between sessions.

It worked rather well, mostly because the GM mastered the intricacies of the options he had selected for the system, and because he too was a fine GM otherwise.

I really do not mind Rolemaster without the Companions, I think it's a fine system and I'd run it in a heartbeat, but with that shitload of options, it struck me as complication for complication's sake, and I'd never run that myself.

3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons.

Millenium's End.

The skills system was a simple roll-under percentile, but the combat was atrociously gimmicky; from the hit location system to the determination of the wound type and trauma and bleeding, all intersecting back at a remarkably simple incapacitation modifier to skills, it's pretty much the one game where even _I_ don't want to get in combat, because it's just too long and mechanically difficult to follow.

The most complicated game I played is Dangerous Journeys. I don't remember much other than having pages and pages of character sheet (pregen) which I promptly ignored. The only fun bits involved character interaction, the game itself disintegrated with a couple of sessions.

I still wonder what possessed the GM to run this game. Surely at some point during many long hours he must have spent creating all our characters he must have realised that this was insane?

RoleMaster 2e with a whole slew of options from the first four or five companions.

It was awesome, and creating a character record for it taught me how to program the fuck out of MS Excel (which has helped me immensely in making myself useful at my current job).  My players didn't like it so much, though.

A close second was the time I ran a very short-lived campaign of AD&D 2e with all (ALL) of the Player's Option rules in effect.  That sucked fat greasy donkey cock.

RMSS edition rolemaster was pretty bad. I GMed it for two separate groups, both times only for a session or two. What made it especially bad was that in one group I was the only person who'd read any of the rules. I'm thinking of GMing it again but if I do it will definitely be the older, less fiddly edition (2nd, I think. With the red borders on the covers.)

Oh, and D&D 3e and 4e are also both way over the top complexity wise.

3e, especially with all of the sourcebooks we were using. Loved it, though.

SPI's Dragonquest and Universe. RPGs made by wargame companies are a class into themselves.

Well, I did run Powers and Perils for a few sessions but it doesn't really deserve its reputation for complexity.

Anyhow, I think the most scary, out there game I ever ran was Lee Gold's Lands of Adventure published by FGU.  I wish I'd kept it now as it actually was very inspirational.

At the time the calculation for Skills seemed very complex but I think it was actually just averaging two stats for each skill.  There was a different formula for each skill anyhow.

Weapon damage was based on its weight and leverage.  I'd have to check the book but I think it was the taper pole lever equation my ninth grade science teacher was so fond of.

There was a formula for computing the energy cost of spells and a formula for divine intervention and a formula for armor and so on.

It's been so long I can't recall the details.  But where GURPS and Rolemaster NEVER get past fifth grade math, Lands of Adventure was pushing tenth grade pretty hard.

Probably Top Secret.  Only played it a couple times, so maybe that's why.  I never spent a lot of time getting familiar with it.

I recently got a copy of Dangerous Journeys, and that seems really complicated for an RPG.

Dragon Quest Complex?  It's the sum of two stats plus 3% per rank for just about everything.

Star Frontiers is harder with its stat / 2 + 10 x rank.  Oooooh DIVISION!  SCARY!

Seriously though, we were playing Dragon Quest in seventh grade and never had a problem with it.  I do think the case numbering could be intimidating and a few things like the parry calculation were a bit fiddly as they were a percentage of the percentage chance to hit but that percentage boiled down to 1/4 or 1/5 I can't quite recall which.

Also, I thought Dangerous Journeys was complex upon reading it.  But that turned out to be Gygaxian prose causing confusion.  It's just a stat + fixed bonus for base skills.  Where it gets ugly is full practicioner spell books with their hundreds of entries.  Not particularly complex but a terrible chore.  The armor data blocks are similarly easy to use and horrible to copy out on your character sheet.

Quote from: David Johansen;662990Dragon Quest Complex?  It's the sum of two stats plus 3% per rank for just about everything.

Star Frontiers is harder with its stat / 2 + 10 x rank.  Oooooh DIVISION!  SCARY!

Fourth grade math is hard.