The mention of luck is important. Because it advances at a far higher rate than other stats (think it's 2x level if you take it as your levelling bonus, don't have the book on me) the rest of the stats get neglected - and rightly so. You get most bang for buck taking luck. Eventually you'll get a bunch of hapless half wits who can't handle anything but weak standard weapons or cast much in the way of spells, but who cares when they have a Clusoe like ability to blunder through danger and laugh it off with a shrug. 'What Dragon?" and so on.

Also, unlike D&D I can't see myself playing this for ages, levelling up and going much further beyond the dungeon.

I'm saying this as a fan of the game, by the way. For one shot dungeon blasts where the game doesn't last much beyond 2nd-3rd level, it's a lot of fun, the spell names are silly and characterful, the Monster Rating makes combat fast (and those rolling 6 to activate special attacks are a great idea by the way) and there's a role for every character, no matter how useless.

My were-bear character in a play by post game has 3 Dex (yes, rolled 3 for Dex). He's (at best) average at everything else, incompetent with a sword and near useless at everything else. He's now 2nd level, and he got luckier when he went up a level - it would have been pointless increasing anything else as it'd be ages before any stat got close to giving a bonus.

My Elven Warrior-Wizard (with great stats across the board) also increased her luck when she went up a level. The other characters in the game also increased their luck... see a pattern?

I'd have luck as a separate resource for the character to spend. It's designed like that in a few homebrews I've written. When you're on zero luck, you can't spend any more.

Overall though, the T&T game is fun, just not long lasting.

Its a fun game. Long time since I've played/GM'd it though.
I think of it as being almost a 'fantasy supers' game - although plus dungeons. Despite the elves and dwarves, its really more Sword n' Sorcery than high fantasy, IMHO.

On the OP question: as far as balance goes in the default combat system at least everyone is just producing a slice of the total attack, and having an extra character means the total attack will be much better, even if the new character isn't that strong. If you want, replacement characters can also always be some sort of monster kindred with ridiculous stat multipliers (or 2 guys, or the GM could allow a character that's been through a solo or two, etc.).

Balancing encounters is slightly tricky since combats can be very one-sided (I guess 'spite damage' where 6s give automatic hits can help), though it depends on the party since a TTYF spell or two or missile attacks can help bring down big monsters. Consequently it is also harder for the GM to 'whittle down' PCs the way you would for D&D characters, particularly if they have healing spells.

As far as saving throws go, yep unless the character can think of something clever that'll bring down the SR level, their chance of making a higher-level SR is pretty low. The obvious advice here, I guess, is try to have non-fatal consequences to failed saves like the spear trap does [2 dice + what you failed the roll by, minus armour] damage, instead of *SPLAT*.

It's an emphasis-on-fun system, but I also just don't see it as a long term game; I don't know if I ever actually ran a campaign.

I did pay many of the (many) solo modules made for the system, though, and I still have my well-worn Buffalo Castle in the closet.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;651634St. Andre once said that he saw the world of T&T as being like if Marvel in the 70's had done a LotR comic.

That's an awesome image.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;651687On the OP question: as far as balance goes in the default combat system at least everyone is just producing a slice of the total attack, and having an extra character means the total attack will be much better, even if the new character isn't that strong.

The key for the GM is to try to avoid mosh pits. Break melees up into various 1v1, 2v2, etc as makes sense.

To help make this work better, I give Warriors the ability to "I'll Save You!" (or "Get thee Behind me Wizard!") where they can make a saving throw to take the damage designated for another PC in the same melee.

I think of melee battles as chaotic scrums so people get caught up in the mosh and pushed into duels. PCs who don't want to get separated in the scum can make Luck rolls.

Quote from: APN;651639You get most bang for buck taking luck.

True.

And luck is very important for melee and ranged combat too so its the best way to go. But that's an easy fix if you are finding it abused in your game.

In my games, I don't have stats gain at higher levels get modifiers. So you get +1 to one stat at 1st, +2 to one at 2nd, etc. Keeps the inflation down.

Quote from: APN;651639I'd have luck as a separate resource for the character to spend.

That's a good houserule.

I would play T&T over any edition of D&D for the simple reason that T&T encourages creativity rather than stifling it.

Saving Rolls are a brilliant mechanic for doing almost anything. The 7th edition rules add and change something to IMHO give a better game. Including basing level on Attributes instead of the other way around. Atributes are purchased with experience and when he right attributes cross a threshold the character levels up.

I use it quite often for straight up horror adventures as well as fantasy. I have written a full on mythic Greece sourcebook, including gods, monsters, new equipment, new races and a new class.

Quote from: DavetheLost;651829I use it quite often for straight up horror adventures as well as fantasy. I have written a full on mythic Greece sourcebook, including gods, monsters, new equipment, new races and a new class.

Yes. One of the things that impressed me about T&T is that it rivals B/X D&D in it's ability to be bent very far before it breaks. The system is very easy to modify, houserule, tinker around with, and add new stuff to.

Quote from: Spinachcat;651755In my games, I don't have stats gain at higher levels get modifiers. So you get +1 to one stat at 1st, +2 to one at 2nd, etc. Keeps the inflation down.

Interesting! That would keep things closer to the dice range, and/but make initial attribute rolls more decisive.

Even setting aside IQ and DX prerequisites for spell levels, more spells would be unusable without a team-up to provide ST.

Quote from: DavetheLost;651829The 7th edition rules add and change something to IMHO give a better game. Including basing level on Attributes instead of the other way around. Atributes are purchased with experience and when he right attributes cross a threshold the character levels up.

How does this improve the game?

I don't know how this would work in action, but how about re-rolling one or more stats when you go up a level? If you get a higher stat total, you keep that. TARO applies and it really shakes up characters instead of the steady natural progression (or ultra high luck stat and rubbish everything else as usually happens). With the game not really lending itself to long term (and by that I mean level 10+, I don't know of anyone who stuck with it for the years required to get a character that high. By level 16+ experience requirements are doubling, and well into the millions.) it might be something different to try.

Say, new level, you get to re-roll any stat of your choice one or more times. If you re-roll more than once, you keep the value you roll last, regardless of whether it's higher than the existing stat or lower.

Example:

Clord the Barbarian gets to 4th level. His Strength is 18 and the player devotes 2 re-rolls to his strength, one for luck and one for Body. Luck goes up by 2 points thanks to a nice roll, Body doesn't improve. His strength roll (after a taro) goes up to 24. The player wants more though, and goes for a second check. Arggh! A roll of 8! Clord got greedy, and what the gods give, they can take away! With a flash of lightning and boom of thunder, Clord staggers up on unsteady legs, his once powerful muscles now resembling knots in thread! To the sound of fading laughter he finds he can no longer use his sword of choice, and considers cursing the gods... but thinks better of it. He's already been punished once for his greed. Being punished again for stupidity might see him even worse off ... or dead!

Expanding on this, I realise that after a while you'd be relying on TARO to improve stats. Perhaps you can also sacrifice a stat roll to increase the chances of another stat roll.

Say you get to 2nd Level. You want to improve luck, and use both stat rolls at the same time to increase your luck. Roll 6D6 and pick the best three dice to use. Because you have used 2 or more stat rolls on the same stat (whether used on one roll or through separate rolls) you MUST then keep the stat you roll.

Example:

5th Level, and Clord managed to survive despite his own greed nigh on securing his downfall. This time he has 5 stat rolls to make and uses three at the same time on strength. He needs 9 or more to improve on his current strength of 8. Rolling 9D6 (T&T was always about buckets o dice) he selects the best three, gets TARO and rolls again, adding to the first roll. With a final total of 26, Clord looks up to the heavens and cries with relief, thanking the gods and heading off to the weapon shop to get the best sword he can afford!

With stat rolls made this way advancement is all over the place rather than steady plodding through levels with the usual increase in luck.

Quote from: APN;652032Say, new level, you get to re-roll any stat of your choice one or more times. If you re-roll more than once, you keep the value you roll last, regardless of whether it's higher than the existing stat or lower.

I love this idea! Your example is awesome.

It fits very well in the T&T scheme. In many adventures, we see magical events and items cause reroll of stats or wild changes in stats. Ken sees stats as very fluid.

I think the 2:1 LUCK increases are sort of a legacy of from when all saving rolls were on Luck, whereas in later editions the stats are more equal - you might equally well have to make saves on DEX, CON, etc.
At one stage we ditched the 2:1 Luck rule and instead just made all the stats 1:1. Also tried just dividing points equal to [new level] across the stats, instead of picking one and raising it by a lot.
If I did play T&T again these days I might consider making CON 2:1 though, since its very easy for characters to take lots of damage in T&T from surprise attacks, missile attacks, TTYF or whatever.