Quote from: One Horse Town;650436Either that or it's simple RPGsite mating season and everyone is marking their territory.

*takes a piss on Dan's shoe*

Quote from: J Arcane;650434just further demonstrates your clear disinterest in honest understanding

:confused:

"Okay, I might like to read your blog. What's the link?"

"You're lying!"

What?

Look, let me restate this again, very simply:

Gygaxian dungeoncrawling isn't something I've been exposed to. What do fans find appealing about it?

Simple question.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;650439:confused:

"Okay, I might like to read your blog. What's the link?"

"You're lying!"

What?

Look, let me restate this again, very simply:

Gygaxian dungeoncrawling isn't something I've been exposed to. What do fans find appealing about it?

Simple question.

Gee, I can't imagine why I might assume that someone who's already been directed not just to a blog, but a free and complete game but refuses to take the offer might not be discussing in good faith ... :rolleyes:

Quote from: silva;650415Well, if thats your take on the matter, so be it. I dont share it, but respect it nonetheless.

:hatsoff:

QuoteNote that, by your argument, Unknown Armies may be also considered to try "re-inventing the wheel". And this, in my opinion, didnt impede it of being a great game by itself.

I disagree.

UA is not trying to imitate Cthulhu, or be a game about Mythos for people who hates the Mythos, or anything like it. It is just a game that uses a solid and well tested engine with a few clever tweaks to do something pretty original. They didn't try to be ironic about shit, or make the "good" version of anything. UA it's its own. I can't say the same about Torchbearer.

Quote from: One Horse Town;650436You did come off as somewhat incredulous that no-one had decided to answer your questions.

I was. Here's why:

This board is full — full to bursting — with posts about how shitty other people's game systems are. By a lot of people, some of them OSR Gygaxian fans.

Despite that, some of what they said about the play style I found intriguing.

I asked. Politely. Got no response.

Other threads. Other OSR "you're game system is garbage and everyone who played it is a loser".

I asked again, for basic information. Got no response.

More threads. More lengthy posts about why other people's games systems were shit. 0 posts about what they loved about their own game.

An entire thread on dungeoncrawling. Maybe a play style resembling OSR, maybe not — a topic I've been wondering about for weeks.

I asked. Got one response (CRKrueger, I believe), which was illuminating and appreciated, but which didn't answer my question.

And a lot of posts, shitting on other people's systems.

All the energy in the world for partisan bitching... not one line about why their own game is awesome. Isn't that a little odd?

Quote from: One Horse Town;650436It was a bit entitled - as if folk should have written a nice dissertation for you.

I wasn't asking for a dissertation crafted for me. Even just links to something was acceptable.

But instead of posting links... "Game system X sucks!"

Yes, I find that strange.

I'm a devotee of a system. ("Devotee" is far too mild, honestly.) At the drop of a hat, I could tell you why I love the setting, tolerate the system, and what people can do to make their game more interesting.

I've written about this, on a site. (In my sig.) I've written hundreds of thousands of words of it.

And not one link from people who love their game?

Yeah, the endless bitching about other people's games aggravated me. And when I was genuinely interested in theirs... I got ignored or smacked down.

And the combo irritated me. And I post when I'm motivated. And irritation does motivate me.

And I really would like to understand. But...

Quote from: One Horse Town;650436Either that or it's simple RPGsite mating season and everyone is marking their territory.

Maybe that's it.

EDIT: to OHT — I'll admit my emotional response may have been unjustified, but it is irritating to ask a sincere question, and get no response, then ask it again more forcefully, and get heckled by people just for asking. It's Seinfeldian: "No link for you!"

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;650446I was. Here's why:

This board is full — full to bursting — with posts about how shitty other people's game systems are. By a lot of people, some of them OSR Gygaxian fans....

.

People just might be cagey.

I am pretty sure Benoist and Estar have posted on this subject somewhere here. Benoist had a nice mega-dungeon thread that I believe went into some of what you are looking for. Estar has tons of blog entries on old school gaming. They are worth checking out.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;650448People just might be cagey.

That may be. I don't talk politics or personal beliefs for the same reason.

Estar has always come across as a sincere, level-headed guy. Maybe I'll PM him and ask for some tips.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;650446I asked. Politely. Got no response.

Actually, you got over two pages of responses to your "fantasy fucking Vietnam" thread.

I didn't answer it because, personally, I don't really think of campaign dungeon campaigns as "fantasy fucking Vietnam," except ironically or flippantly, nor do I think of it as "Gygaxian dungeoncrawling," since my influences go beyond what EGG wrote on the subject

You keep asking [strike]stupid[/strike] jargon-laced questions without knowing what it is you're asking, so don't blame others for not playing along.

When people have posted about these topics for years now, that the information you seek is literally a search away on this forum, that multiple people such as myself and J Arcane have addressed your very same point before by providing links and discussion and downloads to their games and whatnot, and that you come back on this thread with the same rant like none of that ever took place, YES, for sure, you might find people a dash touchy about the finger pointing, Daddy Warpig.

Daddy, just out of cusiosity, but what do you expect to find on a esy about dungeons or something like that ? Sorry, but Im also not understand what youre looking for exactly.

Do you look for something more or less like this : "I love shadowrun because it allows me to shoot people in the face for money in a gray-colored cyberpunk world full of supernatural mysteries and horrors".

The depressing part about his little segue is that the shared narrative contingent are so unschooled in the the normal cut and thrust of adult discussions, since such pursuits are actively discouraged among their echo chambers, that they will no doubt believe they've sowed discontent among the Emmanuel Goldsteins.

It's one of those very rare situations that make me question my belief in humanity, due in no part to those discussing in good faith.

Quote from: silva;650458Do you look for something more or less like this : "I love shadowrun because it allows me to shoot people in the face for money in a gray-colored cyberpunk world full of supernatural mysteries and horrors".

Why did I like Shadowrun?

I ran into the game at a Waldenbooks in Layton, UT. It was brand new, so all that was on the shelves was the 1st printing rulebook, the GM screen, and the first novel. ("Never Deal with a Dragon", IIRC.)

I loved the setting: orks, elves, and other fantasy races in a cyberpunk world, along with a Matrix, cyberware, drones, and other really cool stuff, most of which I hadn't encountered before. (I got into cyberpunk because of Shadowrun.) It set off bright lights in my skull.

I couldn't afford it, so when I went back to my high school, I made my own little setting, complete with cyber-minotaurs and CHUDS. (Hey, I was in high school.) We only played once — a dungeon crawl, no less, a courier making a run through tunnels under the city.

(The mechanics I came up with used 4d6, roll under. (All I could remember of the system was that you rolled several d6's.) I was amused to find out, a couple of years later, that it was pretty similar to GURPS.)

After graduation, I had enough money to actually buy it, and me and my D&D friends began playing (me as DM). I got DNA/DOA and ran it. Again, it was cool. I bought everything for first edition and a lot for second. We played the hell out of it, that summer before I went off to college.

What sold me on the system was the setting. (Which, in retrospect, is how all my games went — I love settings first, and learn systems later.) The adventure template was well described and easy to endlessly iterate: get job, legwork, cool run, get paid. Even sessions that weren't actual Runs were easy to imagine: you're crooks, the cops and the corps are your enemies. Don't get caught.

It was effortless and fun. We didn't have to agonize over mechanics or setting details. Just play it.

I still love fantasy+cyberpunk. Dragons owning corps, city shamans, bug spirits, all the weird idiosyncrasies of an organic magic system lying alongside cyberware and high tech. It speaks to me.

I haven't played Shadowrun in years. And I contributed to the "Shadowrun Returns" Kickstarter, before sudden financial problems forced me to withdraw my pledge. But just this month, a few days before pre-orders were closed, I spent $75 of my last $120 to pre-order the collector's edition.

See, Jordan Weisman, the original designer, is making the game, and it looks really cool. It looks like it could be a throwback to the days when just flipping through the rulebook could inspire a high school kid to make his own (crappy) setting and (crappy) system just to play something like it.

Not a fan of Burning Wheel at all; I could never figure out what I was supposed to do with it. I bought Mouse Guard because the book looks great and the art is cool, but otherwise seems kind of boring. From the description given in the article/post and in this thread, it doesn't really seem like an RPG, but more of an exercise in resource management.

The notion of "turns" was brought up several times in a derogatory manner (i.e. turns do not necessarily denote any specific passage of time), but it seems exactly like how boardgames treat turns to me. Nothing wrong with that at all, but again, that's really not an RPG.

I'll probably support the KS just to see what all the fuss is about...

Oh, hay, first post.

Quote from: Brad;650466Oh, hay, first post.

Welcome to the adult swim.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;650406It shocks me that no one in the OSR has done this. Even after I specifically invited people to sell me on the idea — show me why you love it. I want to understand.

Come on, guys, someone must have done this. Surely, in the last, what, 7 years? At least once?

One blog post? One manifesto? ("Loving the Old School Dungeon.") One board thread? One board comment? No one?

That's disappointing and puzzling. I truly don't get it.

http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2012/06/old-school-renaissance-primer.html