Quote from: Prisoner_of_Nostalgia;6487373) Storyteller/Narrativist types - My issue with these guys is this repeated notion I see that rules are unimportant and the only thing that matters is 'quickness and fun!'. I always ask them why they don't save a lot of money by just joining some sort of drama club/improvisational acting troupe and quit buying 'games' with only a 'rock, paper, scissors' type 'mechanic' to even call them 'games'.

At least to some extent, that's precisely what they did.  No one's going to call classic World of Darkness stuff mechanically robust, and a lot of people jettison large parts of the ruleset.  The big draw over improv group is similar to that of fanfiction or choose-your-own-adventure works over original writing, that of an established and resonant world or set of choices which can allow multiple people to work better than they might otherwise.  ((If that sounds like an insult to one or both groups, it probably is, with the caveat that I /like/ both sets of works.))

Quote from: RPGPundit;649155Its only nonsense if you're using it wrong.

It remains nonsense if someone else is using it wrong, too, which seems unfortunately common among the New Age crowd.

Can I be a villain in someones game?

Quote from: Silverlion;649599Can I be a villain in someones game?

Well, I'm preparing for a Gangland in Fantasy Setting game, so I can name one of the mob bosses Silver Lion, if it's enough for ya .

Quote from: Rincewind1;649600Well, I'm preparing for a Gangland in Fantasy Setting game, so I can name one of the mob bosses Silver Lion, if it's enough for ya .

Awesome. I can be a paper mafia guy (You'd be surprised how much money there is in the printing press?)

Quote from: Silverlion;649602Awesome. I can be a paper mafia guy (You'd be surprised how much money there is in the printing press?)

I wouldn't be, since I know about Superdollar and perhaps more importantly, Polish' mob forgery operations, which are supposedly actually superior to that.

But since I'm going to be using silver coins, you can be the leader of forgers and coin cutters .  Named after a mane of silver hair, though some joke that it is because of a harem of "lioness" you keep.

Quote from: Rincewind1;649604I wouldn't be, since I know about Superdollar and perhaps more importantly, Polish' mob forgery operations, which are supposedly actually superior to that.

But since I'm going to be using silver coins, you can be the leader of forgers and coin cutters .  Named after a mane of silver hair, though some joke that it is because of a harem of "lioness" you keep.

Awesome!
I get to be a villain! Yaaaay!

Quote from: Silverlion;649599Can I be a villain in someones game?

Have you any credentials in Mad Science That Threatens To Destabilise The Very Nature Of Reality while maintaining an altruistic view of yourself and preparing elaborate but deadly cul de sacs for government agents to investigate? Bonus points if you look good in a plastic lab coat while wearing goggles.

The truest villainy is banality. I will become... the apathetic office worker who lives only for the weekends! You may call me "Bob, from Accounting."*

*(I am not actually an office worker, named Bob, or from accounting. I do however enjoy weekends immensely, even if I may not live solely for them. Objects in the mirror are not as large as they may appear.)

Quote from: Cylonophile;398502Hmm. At times I think that some of the people who just create the sickest, darkest, most repugnant game settings imaginable might fall into this category, but then they don't make anyone play their dark, depressing, fatalistic stuff. I'm not crazy about them and I don't like the uberdark stuff, but calling them villains might be going to far.

 I really think it's kinda pathetic to put what amounts to softcore porn on the cover of game products as it makes gamers look like drooling adolescent geeks buying stuff because there's a near naked woman on the cover. Avalanche press does this shit a lot and it makes some gamers look bad. I don't even touch their stuff.

 Those are my peeves about the rpg biz, if that makes them villains then so be it.

Avalanche Press makes RPG's?  I thought all they made was board games, huh..:huhsign:

my list:

MWP: for not realizing Cortex/Cortex+ is shit, and continuing to attach it to awesome licensed products...

Luke Crane: For being Luke Crane...

RPG.net: for being RPG.net (not really an industry leader, but their influence is there unfortunately)

Quote from: everloss;649541Not the first time I've heard someone say this. But I've never heard anyone actually give any evidence to back it up. Other than taking forever to put out books, how does he fuck over his customers?

He doesn't. I love me some pally stuff. But if you get fucked over by his hype of something then you deserve it. That and the "Crisis of Treachery". Where Kev got dicked and cried give me money with a honey voice. Then people gave money to him for nothing. No product. Maybe a picture and a thanks.

Quote from: everloss;649541Other than rewriting freelancer work and giving them partial credit (since he rewrote their material) how does he fuck over his writers?

Rewritten or not he takes credit and an "oh they helped". By writers can't say anything because of the transfer of rights, non-disclosure agreement he makes them sign, before he will accept their manuscript.

Quote from: everloss;649541Sure Bill Coffin wrote a brilliantly angry piece, but he later retracted it and apologized.

Again the right/disclosure agreement in effect. He had to retract it. Seriously. The writer of a certain game [COUGH]Dead Reign[/COUGH] for pally said he had shown one of his law professors a copy of the agreement, who was dumbfounded by how draconian, and encompassing it was. (Oh and by the way the original Dead Reign was based on

Quote from: everloss;649541Kevin basically gave CJ Carella free reign with Rifts and Nightbane.

He didn't give either of them that. Though he was looser about micromanaging everything back then. Now it would never, ever happen. Shit Erics was the only ones stuff he didn't (and I think wouldnt) fuck with. That I believe was a mutual respect and friendship thing. That even Kev wouldn't fuck with.

Quote from: everloss;649541And lastly, how exactly did he milk Eric's death? I don't recall Kevin saying, "My best friend died, buy my shit!"

That is a fallacy, you are correct.

Quote from: everloss;649541and while it's not said here, it is the same with the old, "Kevin S. is a big meanie because he sues people for posting conversions without permission!" It's like, every person who posts something negative about Palladium and Kevin knows someone who is cousins with someone whose dad knows a guy who got sued or ripped off or something.

He is pretty lawyer happy. But people take it to the extreme as not to be believable. Talk shit on the internet. He might, and its a very remote might get a little bent. Sign an agreement with him. He will clean your clock, using the agreement you signed.

Quote from: everloss;649541Haters gonna hate.

True enough I suppose.

Quote from: everloss;649593I would call that a marketing blunder based on Kevin's ignorance, rather than intentionally trying to stick it to their customers. In fact, the whole time I was reading that, I was saying to myself, "if that's the case, why not just go to the Palladium site?"

Sometimes people get gift cards for this place called Amazon.
To my knowledge, Palladium does not sell Gift Cards (amazingly).

QuoteI mean, look at the Christmas grab bags, you order one, and you basically get half the stuff for free. It's one of the best deals out there for actual RPG books, and the deal lasts for like 4 months out of the year. That doesn't seem like something someone who hates their customers would do.

...I've been hesitant to burst that bubble for a number of years, but "Santa Kev's" philanthropy actually works to his financial benefit. Again, remember MSRP is supposed to cover Distribution and Retail costs, and accounts for 70-80% of the MSRP. X-mas Surprises are sold direct from Palladium; no retail costs. X-mas Surprises are also billed for Shipping, so the customer foots the distribution costs, as well.

So you get twice as much product as MSRP...but Palladium gets 20-30% of MSRP as pure profit, compared to brick n' mortar sales.

It's not as good as the 70-80% of MSRP they get off Palladium storefront sales (they sell at MSRP + shipping), but nothing lasts forever.

QuoteBut I've never seen anything he's ever done as intentional malicious - it's always just really bad business/marketing decisions because, well, he's not really a businessman and he's definitely not a marketer. He's a gamer who got lucky a bunch of times.

I'll agree only up to a point; by this point, he knows he has a die-hard following, and seems quite willing to shuckster them. The recent crowd-funding efforts (Lemuria, NG1, & NG2) definitely show it, with something like 320 purchases averaging over $80 a piece for "special collector's items/books".

Quote from: everloss;649541Other than rewriting freelancer work and giving them partial credit (since he rewrote their material) how does he fuck over his writers?

Partial pay, to go with partial re-write, from what I've heard.

QuoteSure Bill Coffin wrote a brilliantly angry piece, but he later retracted it and apologized. Kevin basically gave CJ Carella free reign with Rifts and Nightbane.

The list of former Palladium staff and freelancers, no longer willing to work with Kevin, versus those that will, is very disproportionate.

Is that conclusive proof? No. But it does paint a fairly damning picture.

QuoteAnd lastly, how exactly did he milk Eric's death? I don't recall Kevin saying, "My best friend died, buy my shit!"

No, he literally sold some of Eric's old stuff, to the highest bidder on e-Bay, promoting it both on his Murmurs and Company Releases.

I have no doubt Eric told him to sell the stuff, but DAMN did it come across completely ghoulish.

Quoteand while it's not said here, it is the same with the old, "Kevin S. is a big meanie because he sues people for posting conversions without permission!" It's like, every person who posts something negative about Palladium and Kevin knows someone who is cousins with someone whose dad knows a guy who got sued or ripped off or something.

Actually, most got a Cease & Desist form letter from Kev's lawyer; it is not the same thing as a judge's Cease & Desist Order, or anything legally binding. It's basically a warning letter. The problem was the way it was worded, which was not conciliatory or informational, but blatantly confrontational.

From a legal standpoint they pulled a strong CYA, but from a PR standpoint, they basically gave a huge middle finger to their whole on-line fan base. (There was also politics at play, which are still at play at Palladium)

Let me be the first to point out, if not actually notice, that this is a two and a half year bit of necromancy.

Not that I'm not guilty of it myself.


I just wonder how many of today's quote responses actually expect to hear back from the posters they are quoting from when the thread was fresh?

I didn't see anything "ghoulish" in Kevin's reactions to Erick's death.

This thread's a reminder that I wish Cole still posted here.