Why does GURPS have to be replaced, anyways?

Quote from: jeff37923;648121Why does GURPS have to be replaced, anyways?

It doesn't "have" to be replaced, it would just be nice to have more simple focused GURPS-like material out there. SJ Games doesn't seem interested in producing it or allowing others to do so for actual GURPS.

A quasi-GURPS clone is one way to go but its even more work than sifting through the existing system for the desired bits so it isn't that attractive an option.

Quote from: CRKrueger;648114Those games sound very tongue in cheek by the titles, are they serious approaches or just lots of wacky gonzo and 4th wall stuff?  I don't have any interest in Munchkin the RPG (at least not as a main fantasy line).

Steve always has shown a preference for whacked out gonzo humor over grim dark.

Anyhow, "Why does GURPS need replaced?" well if you're a D&D fan who doesn't play GURPS it probably doesn't.  But if you're a GURPS fan who'd like to see the game do better or wants to contribute in a meaningful way you pretty much have to find another game because SJG has no interest at all in your setting you put years into or whether the new players to the game can handle eating the whole cow.  Then it becomes a question of which of the existing games offer you a superior alternative.

For me, I think I'll be giving CORPS another look.  Others might find the d6 system or JAGS to be the answer.  None of these solutions really help me out as a retailer who wants to promote alternatives.

I'd love to see something more like a Linux approach but there seems to be a bit of interest as long as somebody else does it.  That is to say, someone else does all the work and then they can look it over and decide if it suits their needs at which they might deign to participate.

That's fine but I've got my own systems I'm working on that aren't GURPS derived in any way and I'll just keep plugging along on those if that's the case.

I've been messing with GURPS WWII, as I think I mentioned in another thread, and to that end, I've grabbed a few other GURPS 3e books super-cheap from various places online. I understand why that's not a model for a retailer, but it's worked pretty well for me.

Quote from: Votan;647989I see we have a partisan.

Don't you mean collaborator?
(I will also accept the term "Vichy")

Quote from: The Traveller;648021They are nice though. I guess it would remove much of the attraction of the existing supplement treadmill. GURPs is an alright system but the presentation and layout aren't very good, as others have mentioned. You can get it to do more or less what you want but only by forcing the GM to put on a designer's hat, and most GMs aren't willing to do that, nor should they be. Ergo, by its nature a GM needs to be experienced before setting it up so it's not really an entry point into the hobby.

SOmetimes its not about experience or being able to do it. But time to do it. Can I build what ever creature using the books? SUre. But do I have the time not always. Is it (Monster Manual) a crutch or a tool. I suppose in the eye of the beholder.

Quote from: CRKrueger;648114Those games sound very tongue in cheek by the titles, are they serious approaches or just lots of wacky gonzo and 4th wall stuff?  I don't have any interest in Munchkin the RPG (at least not as a main fantasy line).

While those books are awesome you already have to know and understand the GURPS rules to get any use out of them. They're for the hardcore fans.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;648054Not sure how an open/clone/SRD/whathaveyou of GURPS would be more popular?

It would allow for a diversity of approaches. Some bad, most so-so but a few gems would be created that would be good and have the potential to make GURPS appealing for a new generation of gamers.

At that point the goal would be replacing GURPS not supporting or popularizing it as the thread title suggests.  It becomes about making a point / showing what could be done.

The goal would indeed be to surpass GURPS in the marketplace thus freeing up the staff at SJG to produce even more Munchkin crap.

Quote from: CRKrueger;648114Those games sound very tongue in cheek by the titles, are they serious approaches or just lots of wacky gonzo and 4th wall stuff?  I don't have any interest in Munchkin the RPG (at least not as a main fantasy line).

Well they have their distinct takes. Dungeon Fantasy is oriented around 250 pt characters due to the line putting an overemphasis on making GURPS characters that can survive D&D style dungeons. But aside from that it is very solid for any Fantasy Campaign. The ones I found particularly useful in the DF line for my Majestic Wilderlands campaign (150 pt typical)

DF 2 Dungeons
DF 5 Allies
DF 8 Treasure Types
DF 9 Summoners
DF 13 Loadouts
DF 15 Henchmen (especially for lower point fantasy templates)
DF Monsters 1
DF Adventure 1

Treasure Types is very very good and useful for even my Swords & Wizardry game.

The combined line has largely addressed my complaints about fantasy support for the GURPS Lines.




Action is over the top but not gonzo. And like DF has very useful rules for things like chase resolution.

Monster Hunter is pretty straight and true to the genre. Allowing for Supernatural, Buffer, Vampire Diaries, Dresden etc.

Quote from: estar;648298It would allow for a diversity of approaches. Some bad, most so-so but a few gems would be created that would be good and have the potential to make GURPS appealing for a new generation of gamers.

If the SRD is more popular than GURPS, no one would bother with GURPS.  Maybe if the SRD for GURPS is terrible, people would assume that GURPS is great and get it.

Quote from: David Johansen;648301The goal would indeed be to surpass GURPS in the marketplace thus freeing up the staff at SJG to produce even more Munchkin crap.

The only time I see people play Munchkin is when the SJGame guy is touring the stores doing tournaments.

Quote from: Koltar;648019Every time I read someone wanting a 'bestiary' to me that just means they got over-programmed by D&D and the D&D mindset that there HAS to be a 'Monster Manual' or 'Bestiary' all the time in every RPG.

No, there really doesn't have to be one.

- Ed C.

I don't think there has to be one, but it would be helpful if someone wants to shoot a gun at an elk and you want to know if it's dead.

Quote from: David JohansenDungeon Fantasy requires the Basic Set so it's not the introductory material I'm talking about.

Nor is it in any way contradictory to want complex material in supplements while wanting a simple core. A simple core makes it easier to bring in new people.

Sorry, I understand that you are an experienced Gurps player, so those supplements were recommended for you rather then as an introduction. There is no simple classic fantasy introduction (until Gurps: Discworld comes out). I disagree about Gurps Lite BTW. Gurps Lite has plenty support for "other genres" why couldn't you run a Magic-less fantasy, a 1920s pulp game or even a Slasher movie with Lite?

If you are the one introducing new players, I think Gurps "core" is actually pretty simple to teach. 3d6 roll under. You can reduce the game's complexity all the way down to it's 4 base stats and it still works. I myself don't play with Ads/Disads unless they are part of a template.

As I've said before, Gurps is not a perfect game. (Hey, you're in that thread too!) However, for the initiated, there is support for just about anything you could want.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;648305The only time I see people play Munchkin is when the SJGame guy is touring the stores doing tournaments.

That is only YOUR view of things and narrow experience. In southwestern Ohio (Cincinnati general area) MUNCHKIN is extremely popular. People that have NEVER played D&D or roleplaying games come in looking for it. Plenty of times have sold out of the original version and just have variations on the shelf (SUPER MUNCHKIN, MUNCHKIN Apovalypse,...etc)


Also there are very often pick-up games of MUNCHKIN at our tables. Those happen both with our DEMO copy of it and with just-purchased copies.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Ronin;648237Don't you mean collaborator?
(I will also accept the term "Vichy")

One man's terrorist is another woman's freedom fighter.