Quote from: deadDMwalking;641862First off, links to images of the shirts?

My shirt?  It's my avatar

QuoteSecondly, not defending a game that I haven't played - but I have yet to see anything that is convincingly damning.  Ward is most often used in the context of a minor (ward of the state, ward of the court) in this country and this day and age.  But that's not the only definition.  I'm pretty sure that Robin (Bruce Wayne's ward) was supposed to be more than 18 (at least for most of his career in comic books).

The Guardian can enter into legal contracts; the ward cannot.  For young men of property, having someone handle their financial affairs until they were 'settled' was not considered improper.

Yet again, for what seems like the 100th time.  The cover clearly showed an adult male and very young boy.  I must ask, if this information has been presented several times, including the post right above yours, why do you continue to ignore it?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;641864My shirt?  It's my avatar

WTF? It's a pretty decent illo. Do you sell those shirts online, with profits going against cancer?

Quote from: Benoist;641885WTF? It's a pretty decent illo. Do you sell those shirts online, with profits going against cancer?

The front page here has a link to where you can customize it how you want it.  The ones at the convention (and the ones I physically have in stock) are all pink.  If it's something you think is actually decent, you may want to follow the link so you can get the type of shirt and color you want.  And yes, everything goes to the American Cancer Society.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;641857Anon, before you reply with probably a lot more inaccuracies, let me give you a quick run down of what you're defending, because I don't think you fully realize just how that makes you look.

A title of a game called "Hot Guys Making Out"

By itself, no real big deal.

A cover of a half naked adult male intimately embracing what appears to be a 10 year old boy

That by itself is raising red flags.  That combined with the title?  Red flags galore.

And then you have the blurb about the game is about:



Sorry dude, but that has pedo written all over it.  Go ahead and forward this thread to Gamestorm.

Don't forget the missing covers on the internet and backroom print jobs which indicate an awareness of and desire to avoid interstate child porn trafficking laws. Doesn't make it any less child porn but does show they know what they're peddling.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;641864Yet again, for what seems like the 100th time.  The cover clearly showed an adult male and very young boy.  I must ask, if this information has been presented several times, including the post right above yours, why do you continue to ignore it?

I don't find the analysis convincing.  If it is anime/manga style (which is not photo realistic) than some people can say it looks like a youth and others can claim it looks like an adult.  

Additionally, if the artist is different from the author (which is usually the case), some amount of difference in artistic vision is possible.  Compare, for instance the Star Wars movie poster to the characters in the movie...

What would be convincing is if the scenario provides ages for the characters.

But even that's not perfect.  According to society, having sex with a 17 year old the day before his/her 18th birthday is wrong, but the next day it is 'perfectly acceptable'.  That one extra day isn't magical.  Since we don't have panels to judge maturity prior to authorizing sexual relationships, a rather arbitrary line was chosen.

In my opinion, it would be wrong for me to pursue sexual relations with women 15 years my junior, but society says it's alright.  As long as no one is being hurt, I try to keep my moral indignation from getting in a wad.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;641920What would be convincing is if the scenario provides ages for the characters.

Googling for the game brings up playtest comments about Gonsalvo, the orphan who moves in with the nobleman Honoré, being sixteen. No idea whether there's room for adjustment, although it does seem like a very fixed scenario.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;641920I don't find the analysis convincing.  If it is anime/manga style (which is not photo realistic) than some people can say it looks like a youth and others can claim it looks like an adult.  

Additionally, if the artist is different from the author (which is usually the case), some amount of difference in artistic vision is possible.  Compare, for instance the Star Wars movie poster to the characters in the movie...

What would be convincing is if the scenario provides ages for the characters.

But even that's not perfect.  According to society, having sex with a 17 year old the day before his/her 18th birthday is wrong, but the next day it is 'perfectly acceptable'.  That one extra day isn't magical.  Since we don't have panels to judge maturity prior to authorizing sexual relationships, a rather arbitrary line was chosen.

In my opinion, it would be wrong for me to pursue sexual relations with women 15 years my junior, but society says it's alright.  As long as no one is being hurt, I try to keep my moral indignation from getting in a wad.

holy fuck.

Dude, there was no question it was an adultish male with a prepubescent boy.  I've explained what the cover looks like in fine detail.  That by itself is pretty fucking bad, but when you add it to the title and the basis of the game...there's no question.  Let me add you to the list of people who seem to be going out of their way to make up excuses for this sort of garbage.  For fuck's sake, you sound exactly like those NAMBLA sickos.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;641843So says the person who just made an excuse as to why they didn't donate :rotfl:

The excuse being that I wasn't at the convention...?

QuoteI make plenty of donations, and I feel wearing that fact on your sleeve (or in this case t-shirt) to be in very bad taste. But I'm going to make an exception here. If Sacrosanct gives me an email, I'll PayPal $20 to his charity (no t-shirt necessary). I also expect all you other fucks who joined in this little hatefest to do the same.

As I said, I'd be happy to donate to Sacrosanct's charity fundraiser.

QuoteI mean you don't have to, but there's only one of two outcomes here. The first is that Sacrosanct makes a little over a hundred for his charity (and has me to thank for it), or nobody donates anything and I can continue to treat them as the catty hypocritical shits they are. I'll post my Paypal receipt as soon as it's done.

Checkmate Bitches.

Considering what an asshole you were to him for daring to make a charity fundraiser via his t-shirts, I don't think he has to thank you for a Goddamned thing.

Man, I have to admit that I didn't hear about all of these sorts of games (Maid and the like) until I started coming here more regularly. I can't say I've ever seen a copy of any of the games that have been mentioned for sale in brick-and-mortar stores. I'm not the fun police for anybody, so, Hell, if playing these things is what you and your friends want to do with your free time then more power to you.

Can't say I'd ever be interested. Pedophilia or not, they at least come across to me as more than a bit distasteful. And I have to admit, if a buddy of mine said that he was really into one of these games I'd look at him like he'd just told me about the rousing session of RaHoWa he'd had on the weekend.

I haven't yet made it to a Gamestorm, despite the fact that I'm only about 60 miles away, but, I gotta ask:

What do the show organizers have to say about this?  Has anyone approached them?

I mean, really, you'd think that the convention staff wouldn't want someone's pedo-fantasy being marketed at their show.

And, if nobody has approached the organizers, why not?

Quote from: Géza Echs;641978As I said, I'd be happy to donate to Sacrosanct's charity fundraiser.

Only if the t-shirt is something you actually want.  Anon's post above to have me ask for his paypal account is pretty dumb, because if you don't want the shirt, I'd rather have you donate to the ACS (or another charity if you want) directly and skip the middle man (me).

So if you want my thanks Anon, donate money directly to them.

This is from my phone, so while I have time, this will no doubt be far less complete than I might hope.

I don't mean to come across as a pedo-apologist...  Nothing could be further from the truth.  But I get a strong 'if you don't join us in condemning these games, you must be a pedophile yourself' vibe - and that I flatly reject.

Firstly, I see RPGs as media.  The fact that some of it is distasteful is no reason to condemn the media itself.  I've never met anyone who refused to watch movies because of some hardcore bestiality movie that may or may not exist.  The fact that distasteful movies exist is not an indictment against the media - rather it shows the scope and flexibility of the media.  If anyone says, "aren't RPGs all about fulfilling some twisted pedo-fantasy?" my reply is simple: "that is not what my.games are about, and I've never played with anyone that plays those types of games."

Further, I reject the notion that we can self-police these kinds of games or gamers.  As the bar to self-publishing drops lower and lower, we'll see more of this kind of thing.  Unless (or until) someone crosses a line and actually produces something illegal, there isn't much you can do.  How do you shame someone who will proudly buy and admit to playing a distasteful game?

You can't.

But it's not all bad.  The fact that there are  people into hardcore BDSM doesn't ruin sex for me.  The fact that such people exist hasn't driven 'normal hetero sex' out of existence.  As long as you can find like-minded people, you can continue to do as you enjoy.

But these games do serve a beneficial purpose.  If deviants are drawn to them, you don't have to worry about them polluting the mainstream games with their deviant behavior.  Instead of doing something vile in D&D, they'll be playing something else.  Letting them splinter off to their own sick little corner of the hobby is good -it makes them less identified with the hobby, rather than moreso.

Sick people are doing to do  sick shit whether you approve or not.  If it's not illegal, don't worry about it.  Make your game awesome and that's what people will think of when they hear of RPGs.

Role-playing out the rape and/or sexual exploitation of children as a good/fun thing is not "OK if they do it with their own game" because it's not OK period.  Just because something might not technically be illegal does not make it OK.

How hard is this to understand?

I get that it's not okay.  It's the part where you think it's your job to police other tables that I object to.  Every table has a different culture.   Some people abhor violence, others consider orcish genocide a good night's game.  

Don't approve of sickos.  Don't condone them.  But since your plan to get rid of them consists of screaming on the interwebs, you're wasting your time and indignation.  By making yourself look like a buffoon, you only make the sickos look reasonable by comparison.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;642071I get that it's not okay.  It's the part where you think it's your job to police other tables that I object to.  Every table has a different culture.   Some people abhor violence, others consider orcish genocide a good night's game.  

Don't approve of sickos.  Don't condone them.  But since your plan to get rid of them consists of screaming on the interwebs, you're wasting your time and indignation.  By making yourself look like a buffoon, you only make the sickos look reasonable by comparison.

Once again, making an excuse to turn a blind eye to the fact that people are fantasizing about raping children.  Thanks for confirming.