Quote from: Claudius;629045I started gaming when I was, I'm not sure, 12 or 13. I started with D&D BECM, but we moved on quickly to RuneQuest, MERP and then Rolemaster. Yes, Rolemaster. Kids can cope perfectly with complex games, often better than grown-ups. However, before we moved on to Rolemaster, we played simpler MERP.

I too came across more complicated rpg rulesets when I was a pre-teen.  Complexity wasn't an issue then, after playing basic D&D and AD&D for awhile.

Though if I had come across something like Rolemaster as my first rpg system, I probably wouldn't have continued playing rpg games.


Fast forward to the present, these days I find I just don't have the time and patience anymore to deal with complex rpg rulesets.

I started D&D when I was 10 or 11 with blue book and was playing AD&D within 3 months and have built my own system to run Gor in by the time I was 12.
However things have moved on in the last 30+ years.  
You should read the Wizards article ai posted too as the plan isn't to leave the final look cartoony, its to use that exagerated model for the concept art to inform the fianl designs. I actually think its a shame.

When I was young the Bakshi LotR cartoon was really was one of the key things that got me hooked into fantasy. Followed by Fire and Ice.

Cartoons have moved on. Kung Fu Panda, Shrek, Brave, these are really good films (well Shrek 3 was a bit shit but you get the idea). The audience for Animated movies is much broader now and the potential to bring that audience of 10 and 11 year olds into RPGs needs to be grabbed (still a shame about Harry fucking Potter of course)

Quote from: jibbajibba;629068When I was young the Bakshi LotR cartoon was really was one of the key things that got me hooked into fantasy. Followed by Fire and Ice.

I never really caught on to fantasy type cartoons or movies when I was a kid or teenager.  Even when I got around to watching them, they were never my favorite.  (Stuff like Conan, Excalibur, Krull, Thundarr, He-Man, D&D cartoon, Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, etc ...).

I was more into action movies/shows and some sci-fi.  Stuff like Star Trek, James Bond, Rambo, the original Star Wars trilogy, the A-Team, Knight Rider, Rocky, Miami Vice, MacGyver, the original 1978 Battlestar Galactica, the 1980 Buck Rogers tv show, Transformers cartoon, etc ...

Though oddly enough, I never really got into rpg games with a sci-fi or action theme.  At the time, I thought it was pointless to replicate an action movie/show as an rpg game.

Quote from: jibbajibba;629068When I was young the Bakshi LotR cartoon was really was one of the key things that got me hooked into fantasy. Followed by Fire and Ice.

Same here. The Bakshi LotR actually had a bigger impact on me than the books.

Quote from: Claudius;629045I started gaming when I was, I'm not sure, 12 or 13. I started with D&D BECM, but we moved on quickly to RuneQuest, MERP and then Rolemaster. Yes, Rolemaster. Kids can cope perfectly with complex games, often better than grown-ups. However, before we moved on to Rolemaster, we played simpler MERP.

What's my point? That, if you want to bring kids to this hobby, you need BOTH a simple game kids can start with, and a complex game they can move on to if they want more complexity. There are a few examples of this model that were quite successful, like Basic D&D and AD&D, or MERP and Rolemaster. It looks like WotC wants to bring back this model, and I think it's a great idea.

Which is great.  What I was addressing were comments like those of the Usual Suspects who are throwing a fit unless the "basic/core" version is complex from the get go.  Those who like more complex systems can still get it.  Throwing a tissy fit because it's not core is fucking stupid.

My son is 11, and he and his friends started playing games at around 9.  There is no way they'd pick up an AD&D book and play it.  No way.  But they picked up the red Moldvay book and were good to go.  Largely because the AD&D books were more like textbooks with tons of stuff they assumed they would have to memorize.  The B/X books not nearly as much.

Quote from: jibbajibba;629068When I was young the Bakshi LotR cartoon was really was one of the key things that got me hooked into fantasy. Followed by Fire and Ice.
)

Same here, along with Conan the Barbarian, Krull, Flight of Dragons, and The Dark Crystal.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;629094Same here. The Bakshi LotR actually had a bigger impact on me than the books.

well it got me to read the books then my uncle bought me the war of the ring board game from spi that xmas and I was done All that talent wasted playing silly games

Quote from: jibbajibba;629097well it got me to read the books then my uncle bought me the war of the ring board game from spi that xmas and I was done All that talent wasted playing silly games

Was that the old massive lord of the ring game (i had one that had a bunch of thick cardboard foldout maps).

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;629101Was that the old massive lord of the ring game (i had one that had a bunch of thick cardboard foldout maps).

Map of Middle earth in 2 sheets. Still teh most usuable hex map of middle earth by the way.

Card for all the major personalities.
chits for all the armies and the heroes whe were moved round inverted.

Wasn't a perfect game. But was most excellent to my 10 year old self.

And I still have all the bits although its in storage back in the UK.

Quote from: T. Foster;628723I'm one of the idiots. So far I've been mildly curious about 5E (the same way I was about 4E before it was released), but if I saw a book with a picture like that on the cover in a store I doubt I'd even pick it up to flip through it to see if it was something I might be interested in. My default-state with new rpg products is already so far in the direction of "not buy" that it takes a great deal to push me in the direction of buying and very little to push me the other way.

Then I doubt you'd have bought it in any case. Seriously, what's next? People boldly stepping forward to declare that the typeface they're using means they'll Never Buy A D&D Product Again?

The joke of the thing is how shallow and obvious an excuse that is to cover up a prejudiced decision right from the very start.

I don't know, call me crazy, but the reason I wouldn't buy 5e is if the rules as a whole suck ass.  I think pretty much any other reason besides that would mean that you never actually even considered buying it in the first place, and you're just using your situation to loudly justify your hatred for a game that isn't even out yet.

RPGPundit

Quote from: J Arcane;628729You might want to take a peek again at the quote of yours he proudly bears in his sig.

Yeah, but it seemed so ridiculous, I had to ask!

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;629624Then I doubt you'd have bought it in any case. Seriously, what's next? People boldly stepping forward to declare that the typeface they're using means they'll Never Buy A D&D Product Again?

The joke of the thing is how shallow and obvious an excuse that is to cover up a prejudiced decision right from the very start.

I don't know, call me crazy, but the reason I wouldn't buy 5e is if the rules as a whole suck ass.  I think pretty much any other reason besides that would mean that you never actually even considered buying it in the first place, and you're just using your situation to loudly justify your hatred for a game that isn't even out yet.

Occupational hazard of a hardcore cynic type.  

At times I find myself thinking in a similar cynical prejudicial manner.

I don't know what T Foster's underlying prejudicial reasons are.  (Never met him/her in person).  In my case, my main underlying prejudicial reason is to avoid jumping onto another splatbook treadmill.

Art in published rpg products is extremely important to me, probably the most important thing, because it's the one thing I can't do on my own. The art helps me envision what the game looks and feels like, and helps me convey that to the players (including potential players). Anybody I'm likely to play with doesn't really care about rules (and I'll probably house-rule and modify them anyway) so they don't matter as much as establishing a feel and tone, being able to show a few pieces of art and say "this is what this game is about." So if I don't like the art in a game, or don't find it inspiring, I'm extremely unlikely to buy that game.

Quote from: T. Foster;629785Art in published rpg products is extremely important to me, probably the most important thing, because it's the one thing I can't do on my own. The art helps me envision what the game looks and feels like, and helps me convey that to the players (including potential players). Anybody I'm likely to play with doesn't really care about rules (and I'll probably house-rule and modify them anyway) so they don't matter as much as establishing a feel and tone, being able to show a few pieces of art and say "this is what this game is about." So if I don't like the art in a game, or don't find it inspiring, I'm extremely unlikely to buy that game.

Me, too.

Really, really.

early 1e a bit amateur. 3e too dungeonpunk. 2e really had my preferred blend on heroism and realism in its fine art.

Maybe having more child friendly art will help market 5e to a younger audience. Pixar D&D may not be a bad move.

Quote from: Spinachcat;630009Maybe having more child friendly art will help market 5e to a younger audience. Pixar D&D may not be a bad move.

I would much prefer Pixar D&D over the Bugbear Boobs of 4e...


bugbear boobs... *shudder*