This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Backers pissed at James M. and Dwimmermount

Started by Benoist, September 13, 2012, 01:53:12 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

misterguignol

Quote from: Planet Algol;625884People spend their disposable income on the darndest things!

Knives are no cooler nor no lamer than dungeons....

Oh, I'm sure.  I just had no idea that such a thing existed.

Black Vulmea

Quote from: Zachary The First;625878Not included in that: "I'm sorry", or "I know I have obligations, and I'm sorry I'm not meeting them". Or some note of acknowledgment of responsibility.
Apparently acknowledging responsibility isn't a "simple daily task."

Quote from: Zachary The First;625878It would have been nice to hear, but some communication is better than none.
I'd prefer silence to such a self-serving appeal for sympathy.
"Of course five generic Kobolds in a plain room is going to be dull. Making it potentially not dull is kinda the GM\'s job." - #Ladybird, theRPGsite

Really Bad Eggs - swashbuckling roleplaying games blog  | Promise City - Boot Hill campaign blog

ACS

ggroy

Quote from: Planet Algol;625884People spend their disposable income on the darndest things!

Knives are no cooler nor no lamer than dungeons....

One person's "trash", is another person's "treasure".

crkrueger

I mentioned it before, but this latest post seems like textbook Major Depression.  Sounds like he didn't even realize there was a hubbub about him dropping off the radar.

Remember in The Hobbit when Bilbo and Gandalf are talking, Bilbo agrees to leave the ring to Frodo, they bs about old times, then as Bilbo walks out Gandalf reminds Bilbo he still hasn't left the Ring?  A psychiatrist friend told me once that's exactly how mental defense mechanisms can act.  The mind chops out thoughts that can bring stress in self-defense just like it can edit out entire episodes from memory.

Yeah it seems selfish to ask for patience and compassion when you seem unwilling to even acknowledge others, but again, that's textbook behavior when mental self-defense mechanisms are engaged.

Imagine instead he got hit in the head and has temporary retrograde amnesia, then consider how much you wanna go off on him, it's effectively not all that different.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

ggroy

For example, my parents chucked out a large portion of my old comic book collection.

I was really pissed at the time when I first found out about it, but eventually got over it.

Simlasa

I'm not really on either side of this but based on what I've read I can't think that the torch and pitchfork crowd are helping any... if anything I'd think they're giving cause to raise the barricade.

crkrueger

Quote from: Simlasa;625901I'm not really on either side of this but based on what I've read I can't think that the torch and pitchfork crowd are helping any... if anything I'd think they're giving cause to raise the barricade.

Quote from: JmalThis note is the first time I've written anything at my computer since late last year and I'm doing it only because I've been informed that at least a few of you are concerned about my absence.
He didn't even know people were wondering.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Aos

Quote from: Simlasa;625901I'm not really on either side of this but based on what I've read I can't think that the torch and pitchfork crowd are helping any... if anything I'd think they're giving cause to raise the barricade.

Yes, the customers are certainly the ones at fault here.
You are posting in a troll thread.

Metal Earth

Cosmic Tales- Webcomic

wmarshal

Apparently one kickstarter has already been sued.

http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2013/01/crowdfunding-serious-business-kickstarter/

http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2013/01/kickstarter-lawsuit-neil-singh/

I didn't catch how much of the original $35,000 was recovered, but from what resulted it'd meet my definition of success.

According to some maybe I am mean, but I've looked at myself in the mirror and I'm happy with who I am. I would state that while James may be in a "torpor" as he put it on G+, I have no desire to see James physically hurt himself or others. In that regard if he's truly in a dark place he should probably see a mental health professional. That is pure speculation, but the amount of info we do have is minimal in this regard. Some earlier in this thread have suggested (maybe joked in extremely poor taste) physical harm for James. I have NO desire for that to happen to him.

However, I'm not going to stop researching what options there are available. The only thing that would make me stop pursuing the legal options would be when the commitments are fulfilled. Whatever personal issues he has, they cannot act as an indefinite excuse for delay. When a close family member dies one typically gets a few days off. If you work in the right environment maybe your employer can lighten your work load or otherwise do some small things to make your life easier for a while. If you work a blue-collar job on an assembly line your much less likely to get any such extra consideration. Millions of people go through this every year, and they don't get to dodge their commitments for months at a time.

James has gone almost 3 months without addressing Dwimmermount, and this is the second time he's gone silent. Yes, he just made a post on G+, but nothing in it makes me think he isn't about to go silent again.

As far as the content it seems to me that it's at least 95%+ done as far as James' work. Maybe Autarch can speak to what else they need from James in terms of content. If the content is done, and James wants to focus on his personal life then he could return those monies budgeted for publication to Autarch and give them permission to publish Dwimmermount. Then James wouldn't have this hanging over him, and I think any lawsuit would then be moot. If he spent that money on himself already rather than keeping it available for the publication of Dwimmermount then he has only himself to blame for any legal difficulties headed his way as a result of that decision.

T. Foster

This gets weirder and weirder. Does JM even remember that he received a $50K check from Autarch? If he's in as bad shape as he claims to be (and I have no reason to doubt that he is) he should send that money back to them and authorize them to release what they have (with whatever level of further development and production they see fit) and/or issue refunds to those who want them and wash his hands of the project. Because from the sound of things, it could be months (or years) before he even thinks about Dwimmermount again, much less actually doing any work on it, much less doing all the work of editing, hiring artists and layout people, dealing with printers, etc.
Quote from: RPGPundit;318450Jesus Christ, T.Foster is HARD-fucking-CORE. ... He\'s like the Khmer Rouge of Old-schoolers.
Knights & Knaves Alehouse forum
The Mystical Trash Heap blog

JRT

#1585
Quote from: wmarshal;625907However, I'm not going to stop researching what options there are available. The only thing that would make me stop pursuing the legal options would be when the commitments are fulfilled. Whatever personal issues he has, they cannot act as an indefinite excuse for delay.

I would suggest you consider what the majority of the backers want though.  If, say, only 10% of the backers are upset and 90% are willing to wait up to, say, 2 years, then I think it would be more constructive for you to just ask for a personal refund.  You shouldn't put it upon yourself to seek justice "for the group" if you are in the minority.

In fact, I'll bet if you were serious enough to sue, other backers could conceivably try to counter-sue or block your action, because they may not agree with what you would call "cure" for the offense.  Creative arts are a lot harder to judge in terms of completion as opposed, to say, a computer or a car.  

I'm a little disturbed by people who consider any of the backers who decide to continue on as "suffering from Gamer Stockholm Syndrome".  From what I've seen from Kickstarter, and even with gaming products done outside of KS, late is usually the norm.  It stands to reason that many of them want the completed project if they can get it as promised.  And since many of them are fans of James, I think they are putting his welfare over their money spent.
Just some background on myself

http://www.clashofechoes.com/jrt-interview/

Simlasa

Quote from: Gib;625904Yes, the customers are certainly the ones at fault here.
That's not my meaning at all, of course. I'm only thinking that people should consider how they'd like the whole affair to end and consider if their words are helping or hindering the likelihood of that outcome.
Some have crossed right over to revenge fantasies, while others are leaving room for it all to work out well in the end... and I'd think he'd be more likely to climb down out of his windmill if he doesn't have an angry mob at his door.

KenHR

Quote from: Black Vulmea;625892I'd prefer silence to such a self-serving appeal for sympathy.

At least he wasn't asking for someone to send him a copy of an original woodgrain box.
For fuck\'s sake, these are games, people.

And no one gives a fuck about your ignore list.


Gompan
band - other music

Aos

Quote from: Simlasa;625916That's not my meaning at all, of course. I'm only thinking that people should consider how they'd like the whole affair to end and consider if their words are helping or hindering the likelihood of that outcome.
Some have crossed right over to revenge fantasies, while others are leaving room for it all to work out well in the end... and I'd think he'd be more likely to climb down out of his windmill if he doesn't have an angry mob at his door.

Possibly, but he has received enough money to piss everyone off; however, at the same time, no single person gave him all that much. This leaves him as the only person with any real investment in the outcome... BUT he still has everyone's beer money. So there is no real motivation, as far as I can tell, to stop bitching. The stakes are low, but the beef is legitimate, and no one is likley to lose sight of the fact that he has 50k in other people's money.
You are posting in a troll thread.

Metal Earth

Cosmic Tales- Webcomic

econobus

Quote from: JRT;625915I would suggest you consider what the majority of the backers want though.  If, say, only 10% of the backers are upset and 90% are willing to wait up to, say, 2 years, then I think it would be more constructive for you to just ask for a personal refund.  You shouldn't put it upon yourself to seek justice "for the group" if you are in the minority.

Let's not resort to what amounts to peer pressure here. If one person feels like he was taken advantage of, it doesn't matter if a million others are smiling along. That person has a grievance. Address it, get to the bottom of it.

Quote from: JRT;625915Creative arts are a lot harder to judge in terms of completion as opposed, to say, a computer or a car.

Maybe the Silmarillion or the Sistine Chapel will never "really" be finished, but if someone is promised a book, a PDF, rubberized play mats or whatever, I think it's trivial to judge if that promise has been completely fulfilled or not.

Quote from: JRT;625915I'm a little disturbed by people who consider any of the backers who decide to continue on as "suffering from Gamer Stockholm Syndrome".

I'm a little disturbed myself by people who go out of their way to dismiss the backers' grievances or dissuade them from seeking avenues of redress, so let's call it even.

Yes, Grognardia has had a tough year. Being creative and sensitive is hard and shit happens. Sure, I've seen "Lust for Life." The saints forgive endlessly. But most gamers aren't saints. They're nominally adults with an adult grasp of what it takes to earn a dollar, where art blurs into commerce and where their commercial partners' responsibilities begin. Or am I wrong?