Quote from: The Traveller;622337The concept of a dungeon in general is a juvenile and immature expression of the hobby anyway. Even leaving aside the lack of ventilation, accumulation of poisonous gases.......dungeons in general are an anachronism.

Wait, so it's 1997 again?

Quote from: The Traveller;6223377/10

7/10

Quote from: The Traveller;622337Why would it even be in the game if it's boring? Filler is only needed if you're doing it for money and aren't really enjoying your work.

That actually got brought up in the whole Dwimmermount debate (which is actually how I found this place in the first place). Does a 10 level, 500 room Megadungeon have to be exciting every single room? Apparently the answer today is yes, even among old schoolers, since a room with rats and copper pieces is the worst thing ever.

But personally I would disagree. Exciting things are more exciting when they don't happen as often.

Like a guitar solo in a rock song. Would the song be better if the whole thing was a guitar solo? No.

Quote from: JeremyR;622346That actually got brought up in the whole Dwimmermount debate (which is actually how I found this place in the first place). Does a 10 level, 500 room Megadungeon have to be exciting every single room? Apparently the answer today is yes, even among old schoolers, since a room with rats and copper pieces is the worst thing ever.

But personally I would disagree. Exciting things are more exciting when they don't happen as often.

Like a guitar solo in a rock song. Would the song be better if the whole thing was a guitar solo? No.

A Megadungeon is like a 50 minute version of The Trogs Wild Thing.

I'd rather a dungeon with 20 rooms all awesome than a tedious 500 room epic like Dwimmermount promises to be.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;622237Which doesn't in any way change the fact that, 'Oh yeah? Let's see you do it better!' is a fucking stupid response to someone saying they don't like something.

If you can't put up, then shut up. Sorry to call you on your crap there.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;622311And if I'd done that, I'd agree.

Except that you did. Otherwise, why did you make the statements about restaurants, movies, and public office unless you were making a comparison?

Here's the deal. Self-publishing is easy right now. There are even games out there that make it even easier to get your own stuff out there that uses that particular game system. So if all you have is scorn and derision for someone who actually has the testicular capacity to go out and do just that, then fuck you for being a wannabee.

The Grande Temple of Jing may very well be crap, but if all you are doing is shouting from the sidelines without actually trying yourself to publish, then you are nothing but an armchair quarterback.

I wasn't aware that publishing something yourself was a requirement for criticism. If that's the case, a lot of critics in a lot of different fields are going to be out of a job. Not to mention they'll probably have to turn the internet off, because all anyone ever does is bitch about media they don't like.

"You are forbidden to voice complaints about this thing because you could always do it yourself" is not a sound or even sensible argument.

Besides, I get the feeling people are irritated more about the stupid contribution levels, lame extras, perpetual delays and other baggage associated with Kickstarter rather than the actual content. If I throw in $50 and the project runs a year past schedule, do I also have to self-publish before I can voice my concerns about that? Rubbish.

Quote from: jeff37923;622359Otherwise, why did you make the statements about restaurants, movies, and public office unless you were making a comparison?

I wasn't comparing publishing a gaming book to running a restaurant et al.. That was SinNomine's interpretation, and he was wrong. I was pointing out how utterly juvenile, 'Oh yeah, then you do it better if you can!' is as a response.

Really, Jeff, do you honestly believe that unless you do something first, you cannot possibly criticise someone else?

Quote from: The Traveller;622337. . . [D]ungeons in general are an anachronism.

I take back what I said about you having interesting things to say about gaming.

Quote from: The Traveller;622337Why would it even be in the game if it's boring? Filler is only needed if you're doing it for money and aren't really enjoying your work.

The concept of a dungeon in general is a juvenile and immature expression of the hobby anyway. Even leaving aside the lack of ventilation, accumulation of poisonous gases, the physics-defying subterranean chambers with only a few feet of wall between one room and the next, the questions of how exactly major ecologies have not only survived but flourished in an environment which is home to pretty much nothing in the real world, the sacks of precious metals and mystical items scattered hither and yon, the way a lit torch doesn't suffocate the group within an hour or so, the way that getting lost is never an issue, and so on.

Let's leave all that aside and realise that computers do a better job of the dungeon experience and have for quite some time. To a great extent the first person shooter scene started out mimicking dungeons, with Wolfenstein and Doom, then perfected the art with networking and WoW. Even in the media, underground settings are rarely more than something you have to go through to reach the actual adventure, or a couple of chambers where the final battle happens.

As such the closed-circuit node by node model is perfectly fine in small doses, but dungeons in general are an anachronism.


And you are just so edgy.

Zero self awareness comedy gold.

Quote from: Melan;6223437/10

:hatsoff:

Quote from: Gib;622373Zero self awareness comedy gold.

You're like a random word generator.

Quote from: The Traveller;622374:hatsoff:


You're like a random word generator.

No soap radio.

Quote from: The Traveller;622337Why would it even be in the game if it's boring? Filler is only needed if you're doing it for money and aren't really enjoying your work.

The concept of a dungeon in general is a juvenile and immature expression of the hobby anyway. Even leaving aside the lack of ventilation, accumulation of poisonous gases, the physics-defying subterranean chambers with only a few feet of wall between one room and the next, the questions of how exactly major ecologies have not only survived but flourished in an environment which is home to pretty much nothing in the real world, the sacks of precious metals and mystical items scattered hither and yon, the way a lit torch doesn't suffocate the group within an hour or so, the way that getting lost is never an issue, and so on.

Let's leave all that aside and realise that computers do a better job of the dungeon experience and have for quite some time. To a great extent the first person shooter scene started out mimicking dungeons, with Wolfenstein and Doom, then perfected the art with networking and WoW. Even in the media, underground settings are rarely more than something you have to go through to reach the actual adventure, or a couple of chambers where the final battle happens.

As such the closed-circuit node by node model is perfectly fine in small doses, but dungeons in general are an anachronism.


And you are just so edgy.

Good grief, you're madly in love with the "sound of your own voice." Sometime I think the only difference between your posts and jibbajabba's is grammar and spelling.

Oh, totally. I know I'm immensely worried about the veracity of dangerous underground gases and geology and ready oxygen supply when I'm playing a halfling with a magic dagger and cloak of invisibility. Dungeons suck.

All load-bearing structures and ventilation systems MUST be explicitly described or you are juvenile...

I don't always agree with him but jibba is a nice guy. (And yeah, he could edit his posts a little better.)