With the release of the B/X stuff, there seems to be a renewed discussion around halflings and if they should have thief skills too because Bilbo was stealthy.  But was he really?  I admit it's been a while since I read the book, but I don't recall him being stealthy at all until after he got the ring (which would make anyone stealthy).  His big attempt at stealth was an utter failure (the trolls).  Just because Gandalf said, "No one might notice a hobbit", is that justification that halflings are extra stealthy?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;621336With the release of the B/X stuff, there seems to be a renewed discussion around halflings and if they should have thief skills too because Bilbo was stealthy.  But was he really?  I admit it's been a while since I read the book, but I don't recall him being stealthy at all until after he got the ring (which would make anyone stealthy).  His big attempt at stealth was an utter failure (the trolls).  Just because Gandalf said, "No one might notice a hobbit", is that justification that halflings are extra stealthy?

Tolkien specifically states that Hobbits can pass silently without leaving a trace if they need to.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;621336Just because Gandalf said, "No one might notice a hobbit", is that justification that halflings are extra stealthy?

No.  However, by virtue of their size and cultural norms, I don't think it's unreasonable to assign them a small bonus to doing 'stealthy' things in certain situations.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;621336Just because Gandalf said, "No one might notice a hobbit", is that justification that halflings are extra stealthy?

Extra stealthy? No. Give them thieves' skills as well? No.

Halflings already have a Special Ability in Moldvay Basic that codifies their stealthiness. (See page B10). It mostly pertains to "vanish[ing] into woods or underbrush" but also comes into play in dungeons when a Halfling has a chance to find cover (shadows) and remains quiet.

AD&D Halflings can move very silently. I'm sure that later editions of D&D provided some kind of stealthy racial feature for Halflings, but I don't know them well enough to quote them. Suffice to say, no additional rules or advantages are needed to reflect a Halfling's capabilities.

AD&D 1 and 2 gave Halflings bonuses to their percentile Thief/Rogue skills in most categories, if memory serves right they were an optimal thief choice.

I think Sacro makes an interesting observation. I am tempted to re-read the hobbit and LOTR to check for hobbit stealth.

I think whether or not Tolkein intended them to be so stealthy, they have sort of become that way for most gamers.

The hobbits in The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings weren't any more stealthy than the other characters in any discernible way.  The major examples of halfling stealth result from the use of magical items; Bilbo and the ring primarily in the Hobbit, and the cloaks from Lothlorien in the Lord of the Rings.  

Obviously, with the trolls, when Bilbo attempts to 'burglar' one of them, he fails (though magic was involved to negate his stealth, if I'm remembering correctly - didn't the wallet speak?).  While invisible, he did survive in the halls of the Elf King of Mirkwood fairly successfully, but when he met with Smaug, even invisible he was noticed...  

In the Lord of the Rings, Frodo and Sam do slip and cause a ruckus outside of the gates of Mordor - the cloak allows them to avoid detection.  Later, Faramir has no trouble capturing Sam and Frodo - despite their cloaks - but he doesn't succeed in capturing Gollum.  Clearly, Gollum is the 'stealthier'.

When Merry and Pippin are captured by the band of orcs, they're not seen by the Riders of Rohan; but they also had cloaks, and it was dark, and they were focused on combat.  

In general, hobbits are small enough that they can hide in places that wouldn't be suitable for a 'normal sized person'.  As the parent of a 5-year-old an a 1-1/2-year-old, I know that being small can make someone easier to overlook.  

I think all of a hobbit's 'stealth' can be chalked up to their small size.  A small creature would be likely to make less noise (being lighter) and more able to hide.  It's easier to spot a dog than a cat; a cat than a rat; a rat than a cockroach.  Size matters.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;621599I think all of a hobbit's 'stealth' can be chalked up to their small size.  A small creature would be likely to make less noise (being lighter) and more able to hide.  It's easier to spot a dog than a cat; a cat than a rat; a rat than a cockroach.  Size matters.

Also, they are normally barefoot, so they make less noise than dwarves and humans wearing boots. But yeah, I think it's just a minor physical advantage.

Happily, I'm reading The Hobbit to my children right now, as a bedtime story, and we just finished the fight with the Trolls yesterday night...

Quote from: K Peterson;621363Halflings already have a Special Ability in Moldvay Basic that codifies their stealthiness. (See page B10). It mostly pertains to "vanish[ing] into woods or underbrush" but also comes into play in dungeons when a Halfling has a chance to find cover (shadows) and remains quiet.

And that's almost a direct quote from Tolkien.
But I've always read it mostly as bigger folk, even Dwarves, not paying them much mind.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;621599Obviously, with the trolls, when Bilbo attempts to 'burglar' one of them, he fails (though magic was involved to negate his stealth, if I'm remembering correctly - didn't the wallet speak?).

Good memory!
William the Troll's purse does talk, alerting the Troll's to Bilbo's presence.

Quote from: Novastar;621630William the Troll's purse does talk, alerting the Troll's to Bilbo's presence.

Talks in a Cockney accent, IIRC.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;621636Talks in a Cockney accent, IIRC.

"'e're now 'oo are you?"

In The Hobbit, Bilbo is explicitly stealthy. I've got my copy out, and I'm not gonna retype passages, but p.34, when Bilbo sneaks up on the Troll's fire mentions that he's rather good at it.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;621661In The Hobbit, Bilbo is explicitly stealthy. I've got my copy out, and I'm not gonna retype passages, but p.34, when Bilbo sneaks up on the Troll's fire mentions that he's rather good at it.

I know I've pointed this out in other threads regarding works by JRR Tolkien, but the book is also supposed to have been penned by Bilbo and reworked by Frodo - ie, it's not a third-party omniscient narrator.  Bilbo thinking he's sneaky compared to dwarves doesn't NECESSARILY mean much.  He could be right, but he could also be wrong.

"There is little or no magic about [hobbits], except the ordinary everyday sort which helps them to disappear quietly and quickly when large stupid folk like you and me come blundering along, making a noise like an elephant which they can hear a mile off."

(Besides stating the stealthiness of all hobbits, this quote shows that the book is not narrated by Bilbo or another hobbit.  The narrator is the author. Bilbo writes a similar book in the fiction, but this version of the story is told by a human.)  

In the part about the trolls:

"But at any rate hobbits can move quietly in the wood, absolutely quietly.  They take pride in it, and Bilbo had sniffed more than once at what he called "all this dwarvish racket," as they went along, though I don't suppose you or I would have noticed anything at all on a windy night, not if the whole cavalcade had passed two feet off.  As for Bilbo walking primly towards the red light, I don't suppose even a weasel would have stirred a whisker at it.  So, naturally, he got right up to the fire - for fire it was - without disturbing anyone."  

Again, highlights that the narrator is not a hobbit.

Quote from: jhkim;621709Again, highlights that the narrator is not a hobbit.

Winner winner chicken dinner.