First up, don't get me wrong, I love playing with my group. We're all pretty much on the same page about what is fun, how people should go about engaging with the game and so on. We're now getting settled into our second main game (the first was WFRP2e, this one is Mass Effect using nWoD) underway and twenty sessions in I'm having loads of fun.

However, I also like to believe I'm still a GM, even though I haven't run anything in years (and the last thing I did was a one-shot). Pitching a game to my group is proving impossible.

The most recent throwing my hands up in despair incident was with the Exalted-without-Exalts game I'd been talking to them about for weeks, narrowing down onto a premise and starting to elicit character ideas. It finally came out that about half of them were only lukewarm on it because as far as they were concerned, there was no real point playing a game set in Creation if the PCs weren't Exalts. Could have been worse, I could have discovered this after the first few sessions, but it was still frustrating.

Mostly, I think there's a complete mismatch of preferences; I prefer things much more mundane than they do. Which is to say I don't really like magic/superpowers/ultra-tech/whatever, I like more grounded stuff.

You can probably see this in the PCs I play. In WFRP2e, my character was a human peasant who'd been conscripted during the Storm of Chaos and fought beastmen in skirmishes. He morphed into a rabble-rousing revolutionary and leader of light cavalry. The other PCs were a dwarf, elf and Amber wizard. It was a running joke that I was playing The Guy, the identification character you often had in such a tale.

In Mass Effect, I play the Soldier, where three of the other four characters are biotics and the remaining one is a tech genius. My character is tough, deadly in a fight (at any range, doesn't matter if it's sniper rifles at a mile, assault rifles at a hundred yards, shotguns at ten yards or up close and personal with an omniblade or bare hands) and a good small-unit leader.

I've mentioned the upcoming Mage: the Awakening game in another thread, something I sold them on when I was actually attempting a pitch of my own. Ie I was going to run a more mundane game set in 1750s Colonial America, but I suggested it could work as a Mage game. They leapt on the idea which meant I was playing, rather than running since Mage isn't my thing. Sad thing is while some of them also love the period, the sale was "historical Mage", where for me it was "historical game set in 1750s Colonial America". I'm ambivalent about the Mage aspect, I'm not even playing one, even though everyone else is. I'm playing what is basically a slightly magically-enhanced mortal.

Obviously there's always going to be a place for the Badass Normal in most games and it's hardly a disruptive sort of choice, but I think it highlights the fundamental disconnect. I like playing exceptional, but still intrinsically mortal people. I have no interest in playing people with powers.

When it comes to running a game, the things that really appeal to me are games about more mundane, but exceptional people doing action movie-esque stuff. Think the Leverage TV show or The Expendables or the Bourne movies or The Raid: Redemption. There's no magic or monsters or superpowers, just capable people pushing themselves to their limits, aided by action movie physics. Sword and sorcery/pulp fantasy really appeals to me for similar reasons.

But it doesn't seem like my group is really into that at all. I don't even know if that sort of thing actually works with 5 PCs, perhaps it's better with 2-3?

I don't have any more time in my schedule to add another gaming slot and try to find new players. I don't want to stop playing with my current group, because the play is awesome. But it's looking increasingly like I'm not going to get to run anything for them, because we can't find anything that works for everyone.

Have you tried adjusting your preferences?

If they're not going to change, and you don't want to leave sounds like the best solution would be to try and enjoy what you have.

Our preferences are hardly set in stone, expose yourself to more varied media and try to cultivate a new taste.

Quote from: Piestrio;611119Have you tried adjusting your preferences?

If they're not going to change, and you don't want to leave sounds like the best solution would be to try and enjoy what you have.

Our preferences are hardly set in stone, expose yourself to more varied media and try to cultivate a new taste.

Agreed, sometimes the Stephen Stills approach is both practical and an opportunity for growth.

I have the same issues with the group I play with.
They've all mentioned one point or another that RPGs should be about playing 'heroes'... by which I've discerned that they mean characters who are well above the norm of whatever setting. Powers and connections and plot-immunity follows. (I've mentioned elsewhere that no PC has ever met with permadeath in 4 years I've been gaming with them).

Myself? I just about always want much more ordinary 'street level' stuff... if there's magic I want it difficult and dangerous, I want combat to be a last resort. That makes me odd man out... way out.
It's not that I need full on TPKs to make me happy... I'd feel better even if they'd just nerf healing so getting wounded had some consequence beyond having to drink a potion or talk to the cleric.

Quote from: Kiero;611110When it comes to running a game, the things that really appeal to me are games about more mundane, but exceptional people doing action movie-esque stuff. Think the Leverage TV show or The Expendables or the Bourne movies or The Raid: Redemption. There's no magic or monsters or superpowers, just capable people pushing themselves to their limits, aided by action movie physics.

See, even that sounds too jacked up and 'cinematic' to me.
Maybe if I could just play a short campaign with them where we all died a few times I'd feel better and less grouchy about their preferences.

So far my solution has been to find other folks with my sensibilities and play/run (less regular) games with them. But really, I think I'm looking at finding another group. I do have fun with these guys but I'd like a change of menu and I don't see that happening.

Sounds like a pickle.

I've had the same frustrations at times. Nobody else wants to play giant mecha games, like Robotech, Battletech, or Mekton. It took me a long time to get over it, even though I still work on campaigns and adventures in the hope that someday...

Anyway, most everyone in my group GM's a game now. I run Lotfp, another dude runs Savage Worlds Sundered Skies, another dude runs some sort of Savage Worlds Cthulu thing, and another dude ran 4th edition DnD and is getting ready to start a Shadowrun game. We never even try to run long campaigns anymore because none of us has the time to meet up regularly anymore. So, we play whatever someone has ready, with whoever shows up. Along with what I've already listed, in the past 4 years we've played short campaigns of Palladium Fantasy, Heroes Unlimited, Castles and Crusades, ADnD 2, Call of Cthulu, and a few homebrew systems.

Basically, what I'm getting at is this; I think the key is to get the players to play. There are people who are adamant about not playing a particular game; they're assholes. They're usually the type who play a variant of the same fucking elf ranger no matter what system or setting you run. You're not going to change that. So, you have to use finesse and marketing to sell whatever it is you want to run to them. Recognize what they like and incorporate it into your game. Compromise, good sir.

That's all I got.

One group I play with has this problem, the other groups not so much.

Great players, all are gms. But when any of us pitches a game idea, the group goe sinto meltdown mode where everyone has really lame reasons they can't agree about anything.

Once we actually start playing, it's not a problem.


But the reasons for not playing a particular game system or setting are really, lame sometimes.


I favor letting the gm pick.

Quote from: Piestrio;611119Have you tried adjusting your preferences?

If they're not going to change, and you don't want to leave sounds like the best solution would be to try and enjoy what you have.

Our preferences are hardly set in stone, expose yourself to more varied media and try to cultivate a new taste.

I have tried this and it just doesn't work. As a player I can play whatever the group wants to play. As a GM if I'm not really excited about the game that I want to run, then preparing for it ssems like a burden and sooner or later I completely lose interest in running it.

My solution has been to only GM what I'm really happy running, and finding a group that is interested in playing that. I'm preparing to run a GURPS fantasy campaign for a fairly new group. My old group had no interest in playing GURPS and I had no interest in running 4E D&D.

Compromise. Find a middle ground acceptable to you and to them.

Quote from: Piestrio;611119Have you tried adjusting your preferences?

If they're not going to change, and you don't want to leave sounds like the best solution would be to try and enjoy what you have.

Our preferences are hardly set in stone, expose yourself to more varied media and try to cultivate a new taste.

What I enjoy playing and watching/reading is a much broader palette than what I'd actually enjoy running. I'm not going to adjust my preferences, because when it comes to GMing I'm rapidly going to get bored and frustrated with something I don't actually want to run. That's not going to be fun for anyone, least of all me.

Quote from: Simlasa;611124See, even that sounds too jacked up and 'cinematic' to me.
Maybe if I could just play a short campaign with them where we all died a few times I'd feel better and less grouchy about their preferences.

So far my solution has been to find other folks with my sensibilities and play/run (less regular) games with them. But really, I think I'm looking at finding another group. I do have fun with these guys but I'd like a change of menu and I don't see that happening.

My group doesn't have a problem with things being cinematic, from my perspective their problem is an attachment to magic or magic-like stuff in everything.

I have neither the time nor inclination to find other people. I only have one slot a week to play, and I'll take being a perpetual player over all the hassle of trying to recruit afresh just to run games.

Quote from: Bill;611131One group I play with has this problem, the other groups not so much.

Great players, all are gms. But when any of us pitches a game idea, the group goe sinto meltdown mode where everyone has really lame reasons they can't agree about anything.

Once we actually start playing, it's not a problem.


But the reasons for not playing a particular game system or setting are really, lame sometimes.


I favor letting the gm pick.

Our general principle is let the GM pick, as in you pitch something and they'll give it a go. But that only goes so far, trying to run something people aren't actually all that keen about is a waste of everyone's time.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;611218I have tried this and it just doesn't work. As a player I can play whatever the group wants to play. As a GM if I'm not really excited about the game that I want to run, then preparing for it ssems like a burden and sooner or later I completely lose interest in running it.

Exactly. Things I'm actually excited about enough to sustain me as a GM are much narrower and more focused than things I can get excited about enough to play a character.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;611218My solution has been to only GM what I'm really happy running, and finding a group that is interested in playing that. I'm preparing to run a GURPS fantasy campaign for a fairly new group. My old group had no interest in playing GURPS and I had no interest in running 4E D&D.

As before, I don't have any more time in the week to play RPGs, so I may just have to resort to not running anything. I'm still getting good play, which would have ot be enough.

Quote from: One Horse Town;611219Compromise. Find a middle ground acceptable to you and to them.

Exalted-without-Exalts was a compromise. It's a setting with way more magic than I'd normally choose, and they were going to play Godblooded (ie half-divine) characters, but that wasn't enough for them. It really took a lot of prodding to get it out of them that in all honesty they weren't that keen.

Running actual Exalted doesn't appeal at all, and besides our main GM is keen to do a Dragonblooded game at some point (which is about as Exalted as I'd be prepared to go).

I've gotten some of the best games of my life (and some of the worst, but that's a different story) out of joining a Meetup group for roleplayers.  For the best games, it was precisely because you're not playing with all 10 or 20 (or recently, all 30 or 40) members in a 5 player game to begin with, so some specificity, and even a friendly and matter of fact "take it or leave it," can work in your game pitches.  The first game I played where everyone was positively in favor of the premise, rather than having negotiated a compromise, was a surprisingly powerful experience for me.

"Compromise!" is good generic advice, and sometimes the best you can do, but I no longer think its the best there is.  I had enjoyed my previous games where we started with the same group of friends and negotiated the game, but it turns out that negotiating imposes some limitations and sameness of tone on games that I hadn't recognized.

None of which necessarily helps you, since you say you're sticking with the group.  But its something to keep in mind.  Maybe you could keep playing with this group, and GM for another.  Try an online game with Google +, post flyers, sign up for online player locators, or join or start a Meetup group in your area.  Go out in the streets and make them come in and play!

Quote from: Kiero;611110You can probably see this in the PCs I play. In WFRP2e, my character was a human peasant who'd been conscripted during the Storm of Chaos and fought beastmen in skirmishes. He morphed into a rabble-rousing revolutionary and leader of light cavalry. The other PCs were a dwarf, elf and Amber wizard. It was a running joke that I was playing The Guy, the identification character you often had in such a tale.

This is interesting.  I didn't have a name for it, but I've known in a vague way I often have the most normal character in a group.  The upside is, being The Guy has worked out for me.  In those games, I usually end up being the party leader, the lynchpin in terms of character connections, or both.  It can't be personal charisma or leadership because I'm not the most outgoing or forceful person in most games, but when the most outgoing guy is diverting his effort into an "I'm an elf!  See my wacky elf antics!" level of roleplaying, then Human Fightor the 1st has a chance to step up.  So there's a silver lining there in terms of spotlight and game direction.

Quote from: everloss;611126Sounds like a pickle.

I've had the same frustrations at times. Nobody else wants to play giant mecha games, like Robotech, Battletech, or Mekton. It took me a long time to get over it, even though I still work on campaigns and adventures in the hope that someday...

Anyway, most everyone in my group GM's a game now. I run Lotfp, another dude runs Savage Worlds Sundered Skies, another dude runs some sort of Savage Worlds Cthulu thing, and another dude ran 4th edition DnD and is getting ready to start a Shadowrun game. We never even try to run long campaigns anymore because none of us has the time to meet up regularly anymore. So, we play whatever someone has ready, with whoever shows up. Along with what I've already listed, in the past 4 years we've played short campaigns of Palladium Fantasy, Heroes Unlimited, Castles and Crusades, ADnD 2, Call of Cthulu, and a few homebrew systems.

Basically, what I'm getting at is this; I think the key is to get the players to play. There are people who are adamant about not playing a particular game; they're assholes. They're usually the type who play a variant of the same fucking elf ranger no matter what system or setting you run. You're not going to change that. So, you have to use finesse and marketing to sell whatever it is you want to run to them. Recognize what they like and incorporate it into your game. Compromise, good sir.

That's all I got.

Hey Everloss, pm me,I'm running a Robotech pbp over at rpol.net.

Quote from: Kiero;611110I don't have any more time in my schedule to add another gaming slot and try to find new players. I don't want to stop playing with my current group, because the play is awesome. But it's looking increasingly like I'm not going to get to run anything for them, because we can't find anything that works for everyone.

I feel your pain. I've run several mafia games in the past and although the games were successful, my group looked at them mainly as one shots or breaks from the normal kewl powerz style gaming. I wrote Vice Squad: Miami Nights, a 1980s cops/criminals game that was heavily inspired by Miami Vice, and had about the same experience when running that. Same thing with my Old West campaigns. If it doesn't have magic, or zombies, or aliens, other supernatural gimmicks, they don't seem to last as long.

The only other suggestion I have is to start with a mundane premise, but explain that the game will involve supernatural elements. Advise them that you'd prefer the characters learn about the occult stuff as the game progresses, but of course, there will always be that one player who wants to start off as a dabbler, so just scale his starting powers back from what a normal supernatural type character would have.

I did this with one of my mafia games---they ended up running up against a Jamaican posse that was heavily into voodoo. One of the mobsters (an ex-priest) started researching forbidden Catholic lore regarding the occult and started learning spells, setting off an interesting chain of events. I also do this with my Old West games, starting the characters off as cowboys, ranchers, carpetbaggers, etc. and exposing them to supernatural creatures in the wild and Native American magic. I've found that doing this seems to extend the campaign quite a bit.

I wish I had a more clear cut answer for you, but basically, if everyone except you enjoys playing non-mundane games, you're pretty much stuck. I'd love to play a crime/gang game set in New York's 5 Points, but there's no way I'd be able to sell it to my group. . .

Pete

Kiero, do any of your group have an interest in Call of Cthulhu?

Quote from: Kiero;611265I have neither the time nor inclination to find other people. I only have one slot a week to play, and I'll take being a perpetual player over all the hassle of trying to recruit afresh just to run games.

Then you're fucked.