Quote from: RPGPundit;609444Moreso, its an attempt to subvert the old school movement by stealthily introducing Storygaming concepts under the utterly false facade of a regular RPG.

In other words, the standard Storygamer Swine dirty pool.

RPGPundit

Subvert? I think that's a bit too conspiratorial.

Quote from: Claudius;609304Dungeon World is neither a retro clone nor old school. It is a forgie game inspired by the old school movement, since old school is nowadays fashionable. Nothing else.

Yep.

Forward to Adventure! isn't a retro-clone; it belongs in Old School but not Retro Clone (RPGs which draw on inspiration from older editions, but not the rulesets).

The Hackmaster entry is correct only for Hackmaster 4th edition. Hackmaster Basic/5th is a completely different game which shares some mechanics with Aces & Eight. I would put it in Old School Not a Retro-Clone.

Blueholme link not working, among others.

Quote from: tzunder;607161are the AD&D peeps still playing with the old rulesets or are they the 3e and 4e people?

I for one still run/play and generally prefer AD&D to any other verison of the game.

Quote from: Piestrio;609631I for one still run/play and generally prefer AD&D to any other verison of the game.

Same here.

I use AD&D material to supplement my OD&D & supplements game. Which is 75% AD&D at that point already.

Quote from: Piestrio;609631I for one still run/play and generally prefer AD&D to any other verison of the game.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;609639Same here.

Same.  AD&D is king.  I would play other games, but 1E is the RPG language I think in.

Quote from: Silverlion;609619Blueholme link not working, among others.

That's okay, there will be a DTRPG link next week. :cool:

Quote from: akiva;609482Subvert? I think that's a bit too conspiratorial.

There doesn't have to be any kind of conspiracy at all for attempted subversion to happen repeatedly.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;609847There doesn't have to be any kind of conspiracy at all for attempted subversion to happen repeatedly.

RPGPundit

My point was that you were clearly suggesting that Dungeonworld was an attempt to secretly destroy and/or ruin old-school gaming and/or the OSR--as if story gamers see old school gamers as the enemy. Which is just plain ridiculous. If anything, it's the other way around--a lot of old school type gamers seem to see story games as an atrocity and not real gaming. Which is funny 'cause so many old school gamers lament the fact that the new school gamers are so mean to them.

Quote from: akiva;609858My point was that you were clearly suggesting that Dungeonworld was an attempt to secretly destroy and/or ruin old-school gaming and/or the OSR--as if story gamers see old school gamers as the enemy. Which is just plain ridiculous. If anything, it's the other way around--a lot of old school type gamers seem to see story games as an atrocity and not real gaming. Which is funny 'cause so many old school gamers lament the fact that the new school gamers are so mean to them.

1. They're not being very "secret" about it.
2. Their primary motivation isn't so much to destroy or ruin Old School gaming (except inasmuch as their ideology requires the subversion of all regular roleplaying), as it is to try to parasitically latch onto the popularity of Old School to try to keep promoting their own ideology that has nothing to do with Old School (much like Storygaming in general continues to try to parasitically latch onto regular Roleplaying in general). Like any parasite, while its purpose is not as such the destruction of its host, the fulfilling of its purpose inevitably requires doing injury to its host.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;6101591. They're not being very "secret" about it.
2. Their primary motivation isn't so much to destroy or ruin Old School gaming (except inasmuch as their ideology requires the subversion of all regular roleplaying), as it is to try to parasitically latch onto the popularity of Old School to try to keep promoting their own ideology that has nothing to do with Old School (much like Storygaming in general continues to try to parasitically latch onto regular Roleplaying in general). Like any parasite, while its purpose is not as such the destruction of its host, the fulfilling of its purpose inevitably requires doing injury to its host.

You're the one who talked about it as if it were a secret conspiracy.

I think (1) you're very inaccurate; I don't think the story game crowd pays much attention to the old school stuff, and I don't think old school stuff is actually much (if at all) more popular than it used to be, so there isn't a popularity to be latched on to.* (2) Your language is really obnoxious. These guys are parasites? They play games you don't like; who cares? If you don't like their games, just don't play them.

This is a nice demonstration, actually, of what a lot of people (including me) don't like about a lot of the old schoolers--they idealize one style of play as the one true faith, and lash out with a lot of nastiness at people who disagree with them. I've read a lot of the posts by the story game crowd, but overall I think the tone of the OSR group is a lot more venomous: story gamers (or any other new school gamers) are immature, uncreative, parasites, morons . . . on and on.

Quote from: akiva;610235This is a nice demonstration, actually, of what a lot of people (including me) don't like about a lot of the old schoolers--they idealize one style of play as the one true faith, and lash out with a lot of nastiness at people who disagree with them. I've read a lot of the posts by the story game crowd, but overall I think the tone of the OSR group is a lot more venomous: story gamers (or any other new school gamers) are immature, uncreative, parasites, morons . . . on and on.

To be fair, this behavior certainly isn't exclusive to the old school. The storygamers, and just about every fan community referring to other fan communities, have been known to belittle and disparage others with different tastes in gaming or comics or whatever. Pundit just happens to be particularly vitriolic and obnoxious about it.

Like someone once said about academia, the fights are so vicious because the stakes are so very low.