Quote from: thedungeondelver;606836No, Paladins are based on Holger du Danske in Three Hearts and Three Lions.

Holger was very, very human.  As was the Saracen paladin who adventured with him.

That's where the word Paladin comes from, but the implementation since OD&D comes more from the Christian Militant Orders. It was explicitly stated that this was the case in Dragon Magazine in the 80s.

Quote from: jibbajibba;606853As with explainign all things you have to pick a parallel everyone understands sadly telling a 14 year old that the paladi should be based on Holger du Danske aint going to get you very far...

Song of Roland was required reading when I was in High School.*

Why does everyone cite 14 year olds as the problem anyways? Do people really have that many young teens in their games?

Quote]
Chaotic Good is like Batman

Is it? That seems open to debate. Which is the problem with alignment systems, really, the standards are often largely subjective.

http://writingiseasier.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/batman-alignment-chart.jpg

At this time, through curious circumstances, I do have a 15 year old in one of my groups; but his 50-year old father is just about as bad when it comes to loot-mania.

RPGPundit

Quote from: rpgpundit;607342at this time, through curious circumstances, i do have a 15 year old in one of my groups; but his 50-year old father is just about as bad when it comes to loot-mania.

Rpgpundit

lootstravaganza

I find the "Murder-Hobos" colloquialism to be an apt representation of the current party running through the Hommlett of my game.

Kill everyone, and dig through all the turds to find some silver pieces.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;607171Song of Roland was required reading when I was in High School.*

Why does everyone cite 14 year olds as the problem anyways? Do people really have that many young teens in their games?



Is it? That seems open to debate. Which is the problem with alignment systems, really, the standards are often largely subjective.

http://writingiseasier.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/batman-alignment-chart.jpg

Yeah but its my table right.... if i think Batman makes a good Chaotic good paradigm then.... well I will cite batman and I can even say Chirstian Bale Batman. to be specific. And when the player makes decisions Batman would make I will nod my head and think yup that suits Chaotic good for me.
If you prefer to pick spiderman, or Blondie from the good the bad and the ugly then fine .... but pick something the subject of your advice has actually encountered and is fond of.

As for Pundit, I reckon after Avengers although a few might think Capt was a bit crap they get what he stands for, they grok him if you will.

This really isn't difficult. You are just setting some behavioural norms for players unable to grasp the abstraction of Alignment. Players get what would the Joker do? More than what does CE actually mean.

Quote from: Blackhand;607447I find the "Murder-Hobos" colloquialism to be an apt representation of the current party running through the Hommlett of my game.

Kill everyone, and dig through all the turds to find some silver pieces.

TSR did implicitly encourage that style of playing by including treasure for every farmhouse. I know most of the times I ran or played in Hommlet, looting the village was high on the agenda. And the local NPCs seemed statted out not as potential allies, but as protectors of the gold-rich villagers against rapacious PCs.

Quote from: RPGPundit;607147The problem is when you're talking about a young player who thinks captain america is lame.

RPGPundit

Captain America is my Hero.

Ok, I admit that sounds lame to many people.

But the character is what I wish I was.

Quote from: Blackhand;607447I find the "Murder-Hobos" colloquialism to be an apt representation of the current party running through the Hommlett of my game.

Kill everyone, and dig through all the turds to find some silver pieces.

My personal distaste of 'Murder Hobo Characters' is more about weaker ties to the setting than the fact they are evil.

Harder for me to care when a pc wanders the world killing and stealing. Boring.

I want pc's that build a town in the frontier, fend off sinister monsters, and engage in political intrigue.

I don't care for 'random jack the ripper with no ties to anthing'

Quote from: Bill;607545My personal distaste of 'Murder Hobo Characters' is more about weaker ties to the setting than the fact they are evil.

Harder for me to care when a pc wanders the world killing and stealing. Boring.

I want pc's that build a town in the frontier, fend off sinister monsters, and engage in political intrigue.

I don't care for 'random jack the ripper with no ties to anthing'

Yeah, what tough call do you make when everyone chooses Chaotic Neutral as their alignment?  Restrict alignment?  I let the players play the game they want, but I run the game I prepared.

I try to avoid playing or running games with the 9 point Alignment system, when I can.  It sucks ass.

If the PCs act like bandits, then treat em like bandits.  But have a talk with the players after the game and tell em, "hey, I'm not into running a game about bandits.  Can you guys play characters who I find somewhat entertaining and sympathetic?"

In my current group we not only loot everything and even occupy some of the dungeons. The last dungeon we completed was underneath the house of the city's new lord mayor, who ended up being a monster disguising his nature with a magical suit. We used the suit to impersonate the mayor and "sell" his house to our party and then "retire to travel". We're not above going back to dungeons to haul out interesting fixtures whenever possible. We're more pro-social than typical murder hobos, and have numerous friendly contacts in our hometown. We're more like a murder-HGTV crew. It's important to note that we don't try to backstab or steal from each other, and so far the DM seems pretty chill with our desire to pry out everything, nailed down or otherwise.

To me the looting aspect of play has one foot in the metagame.  I'm only irked by the loot happy players at my table because there isn't even a chance at a single post-combat quip even once before he's got his notepad out after having declared his instantaneous looting, asking which items glow, identifying them, et cetera.

How much gold came off that gnoll, and what that potion he was carrying does is largely a games mechanic discussion and brings me out of the part of the game I'm interested in, which is roleplaying my character.

I've never once read a book, or watched a movie where the characters after having come out of a fight victorious ravenously fall upon their defeated foes rifling through their pockets and then divvying up the coins.

It's just jumping on every opportunity to write something down as an improvement on your character sheet and it's really obnoxious.

Quote from: Wolf, Richard;608028To me the looting aspect of play has one foot in the metagame.  I'm only irked by the loot happy players at my table because there isn't even a chance at a single post-combat quip even once before he's got his notepad out after having declared his instantaneous looting, asking which items glow, identifying them, et cetera.

How much gold came off that gnoll, and what that potion he was carrying does is largely a games mechanic discussion and brings me out of the part of the game I'm interested in, which is roleplaying my character.

I've never once read a book, or watched a movie where the characters after having come out of a fight victorious ravenously fall upon their defeated foes rifling through their pockets and then divvying up the coins.

It's just jumping on every opportunity to write something down as an improvement on your character sheet and it's really obnoxious.

Being focused on loot is alien to me. I remember driving another player crazy when my character gave away a fortune in gold to buy the freedom of a street urchin.

Sure, its nice to find treasure, but for it to be something you pounce on like pack of hungry dogs is annoying.

Gold is pretty slim in my current game.  It's compounded by the fact that I'm enforcing training in AD&D 1e:  that is, 1,500gp x Current Level x Weeks of Training.

After five weeks of grueling through the adventure around Hommlett...no one player in the party has enough to advance to 2nd level.

It's becoming an issue.  The group is mostly CN, though there are a few CG individuals.