Quote from: The Traveller;592039A few more blow by blow examples would be educational though.

As requested, the Destiny Fight Club, with some of the sample fights Traveller outlined, such as "big strong guy against a few weedy guys" (otherwise known as "Ben the Brawler Against Marty McSkinny & Pals").

The first post is the rules, so you know what's going on. The second is Big Ben vs. McSkinny. I'll post about the other suggested scenario when I have the time.

Thanks for all the answers regarding Marvel Heroic.
That was exactly the mental image that the phrase "pass the initiative" conjured up in my head.

It sounds like a metagame mechanic with tactical implications that are not based on how the character perceives the action but by how the player wants to deal with the game ressources (in this case: turn order or spotlight); i.e., it's the player thinking tactically, not the character.

That's not too far away from D&D players counting their stacking bonuses (3e) or bringing their characters in a certain (grid) position (4e) to be eligible for a specific bonus or use of a power.

I'd like to try this passing of the initiative sometime in the future to see if the players think of it as storygamey/metagamey or not.

Yet, somehow a random roll feels less dissociated. (Savage Worlds is peculiar as well. The draw of a card is nothing else than a random number generator but to me it feels more metagamey than the die roll.)

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;592246Yet, somehow a random roll feels less dissociated. (Savage Worlds is peculiar as well. The draw of a card is nothing else than a random number generator but to me it feels more metagamey than the die roll.)

Dice are just numbers, the raw physics of an uncaring universe expressed in probability.  Yeah, chances are, Fred will climb that wall, but it's not guaranteed, so we assign probabilities to actions and just roll.  It quantifies things, so we don't have play Pretend where
"I kill you!"
"No you don't!"
etc...
Also we've been rolling dice since we were single digits in age, dice are just how you get numbers into games, it's internalized.

Cards or other randomizers usually aren't as granular as dice, so they don't make as good of a pure randomizer, so they usually compensate by attaching other meaning to the card, thus metagamey.  I like using cards in Deadlands or other westerns though.  Sometime atmosphere is worth it.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;592200As requested, the Destiny Fight Club, with some of the sample fights Traveller outlined, such as "big strong guy against a few weedy guys" (otherwise known as "Ben the Brawler Against Marty McSkinny & Pals").

The first post is the rules, so you know what's going on. The second is Big Ben vs. McSkinny. I'll post about the other suggested scenario when I have the time.

Thanks, haven't had a chance to digest it properly yet but its sinking in.

Quote from: The Traveller;592572Thanks, haven't had a chance to digest it properly yet but its sinking in.

It's probably not your cup of tea, so I appreciate the time taken to give it a look-see. If you have any questions, drop in that thread and I'll do my best to answer.

Taking a cue from the Twilight: 2000 thread, I'm thinking of making the next combat an engagement between an armored vehicle and a group of rebels. The other option, to address the speed/size issue, is an airship being attacked by a flight of 4 wyvern-riders.

Do those sound "corner-case"-ey enough?

(Also, I omitted a lot of rules, like Hero Points, the Action Deck, and Non-Combat Interactions, because they'd need another rules brief to just explain them. At some point in the Fight Club, I'd like to include them.)

With Arrows of Indra, I'd initially attempted to do a group-initiative mechanic, but I ended up discarding that in favor of individual initiative.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;592631Taking a cue from the Twilight: 2000 thread, I'm thinking of making the next combat an engagement between an armored vehicle and a group of rebels. The other option, to address the speed/size issue, is an airship being attacked by a flight of 4 wyvern-riders.

Do those sound "corner-case"-ey enough?

Thanks I had a good look at that thread now, I'll post a few comments. I like it!

Corner cases are usually where things you wouldn't expect to happen, happen. You're deliberately trying to break your own system, checking are there risks of death spirals in certain situations, does it give an undue advantage to a combatant who already has advantages aplenty, are those advantages duplicated elsewhere, does it do more or less what you might expect in real life, is it intuitive, that sort of thing. Worry at potential weaknesses, if it doesn't break, you're golden.

Quote from: Ben Rogers;591433my research showed that the.vast majority of people,.unless hardened, veterans of combat, do little more than "react" in combat - and most of.them freeze-up more often than they act.

[...]

but the vast majority of non-trained fighters were extremely random in how they reacted to the stress of combat.

This sort of thing is handled in the Morale rules, which tie into the Initiative system.

Once you have Initiative, you can Press Your Advantage. Each round you do, you gain a cumulative +1 bonus. This is the Advantage bonus, and it can go as high as +9.

As one side gains an advantage, the other side becomes more and more disorganized. The enemy appears invincible, and they are being hammered left and right. This rattles people. It causes all sorts of behavior.

In game terms, when their opponent's Advantage exceeds their Morale, soldiers will break: freeze, flee, surrender, or panic (act in random ways).

Morale: Types of soldiers.

-1: Panicky. Troops without any training or motivation (conscripted peasants), or the survivors of a routed unit. As soon as combat begins, they will break.
0: Green. Troops with minimal training and no combat experience, or unmotivated troops. As soon as their opponent gains an Advantage of +1, they will break.
1: Blooded. Trained troops, or soldiers who’ve been in combat at least once.
2-4: Seasoned. Troops with several battles under their belt, high motivation (people defending their homes), rigorous and continuous training, or a high esprit de corps.
5-7: Veteran. Troops with extensive combat experience or elite training (but no experience in combat).
8: Elite. "The Best of the Best." Very dedicated soldiers, with extensive combat experience, and elite training.
9: Fanatic. These soldiers will never break. They will impassively fight to the death. The legendary Immortals of Persia.

Heroes, including all PC's, are immune to Morale. They only flee if they wish. (Which is what I meant by "action movie heroes".)

EDIT: On a battlefield, the leadership skill can bolster the Morale of troops, keeping them in the fight longer.

I've often thought that some kind of "tick-based" initiative system, akin to what Aces & Eights had, would be the ideal initiative system; but in practice these always turn out being a little too complicated.

RPGPundit