This is a potential minefield due to similar terminology used by Forge games for what I understand to be somewhat different concepts. I'll try to walk us through it

Tenra Bansho Zero has two things that are different and unusual for us as a gaming culture (well they certainly are for me and they will probably be for you as well).

The first thing, it is designed to run a decent chunk of what would normally be a full blown campaign, if not entirety of it, in a single "session" (it can be played at once or split into smaller chunks). To that end a session is split into "acts". You can just think of them as being mini-sessions on their own - in each act stuff happens, ideally there's a satisfying boss fight or what have you at the end, then players can improve their characters, maybe have a time skip before the next act. From what I understand it may be a little similar to Pendragon where there can be long time skips between adventures? Every player participates in the act, obviously.

The other different thing is that where in normal games "splitting the party" is oft accompanied by death glares and facepalms, Tenra Bansho Zero is designed to accomodate splitting the party, ostensibly because you can get interesting roleplay scenes between 2-3 people. Now, and this is very important, there is no "scene framing" by the players, they can't demand scenes or spend currency to make them happen, the GM simply calls out "Shinji and Rei, you're in the hangar 10 minutes before the launch, what do you do?". That is pretty much a more formal version of what already happens in other games.

The difference is that other players are supposed to be interested and paying attention instead of getting a coke. They can be the audience for a while, and when they enjoy spectating the roleplay of active characters, they reward that with Aiki chits. The GM can call out one of the audience to either enter the play as their own character or as an NPC, giving them an Aiki chit if they accept. A player can also "invite" another player giving them a chit (they can refuse), or a player can pay a chit to do it themselves. I think it is supposed to evoke the sense of an actor being paid for their performance


CRKrueger, it seems you're objecting not to the metagame mechanics, but to the metagame influence other players have over your character. I understand your distaste for the situation. I don't recall offhand if there is anything in the rules to explicitly prevent such a situation from occurring (but I can check for you later).

However, I would like to emphasize that Tenra Bansho Zero does not have the tone of entitlement that often plagues indie games. Players are working together, not against each other or the GM. It is all in the spirit of friendship (although the GM does have an explicit right to veto any action of the players that does not fit the tone of the game or anything else, even though it is understandably supposed to be used sparingly). I think a situation you describe would be anything but typical in the game, and if I was the GM and a player wanted to force their way in a roleplaying scene that would disrupt its tone, I would consider vetoing it and asking them to wait. Especially if one of the player characters expressed their distaste for such an event.

Which is, when you think about it, remarkably traditional.

Arrgh, lots of words, sorry about that.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;588859all the WoD games are 'storytelling games' which, by the pundit's own admission, are roleplaying games as well, at least.

Very true.  Just saying you're a "storytelling game" doesn't make you a storygame anymore than claiming to be an RPG makes you an RPG.

Of course, it does add to circumstantial evidence.

RPGPundit

PDFs have arrived.

Quote from: Skywalker;589933PDFs have arrived.

tried all three links he sent along, but too much traffic--all links closed at this point

Quote from: beeber;589993tried all three links he sent along, but too much traffic--all links closed at this point

A fourth link on Dropcanvas is open.

Quote from: Skywalker;590072A fourth link on Dropcanvas is open.

yeah, that one's working just fine

Quote from: RPGPundit;589092Very true.  Just saying you're a "storytelling game" doesn't make you a storygame anymore than claiming to be an RPG makes you an RPG.

Of course, it does add to circumstantial evidence.

RPGPundit

Remember, correlation does not imply causation.

Wow, this is a seriously, seriously awesome RPG. It feels like my greatest hits of RPG mechanics from the last 15 years, only it was written 15 years ago :confused: To quote Highlander: "... it [is] like discovering a 747 a thousand years before the Wright Brothers ever flew!" It has my favourite mechanics from Anima, Exalted, Pendragon, The One Ring, Apocalypse World, Mouse Guard, Marvel Heroic and A Song of Fire & Ice and often in a way that's improved and simpler, both in terms of mechanical complexity and conceptually (it plays closer to a conventional RPG than most of those listed). I am just too blown away to talk specifics and I am only 180 pages into the 700 page monster.

I just noticed the dedication to Gary Gygax and David Arneson on the cover.

Quote from: vytzka;590396I just noticed the dedication to Gary Gygax and David Arneson on the cover.

Its also fun that the setting was originally written as a world for TORG.

Quote from: Skywalker;590382It has my favourite mechanics from Anima, Exalted, Pendragon, The One Ring, Apocalypse World, Mouse Guard, Marvel Heroic and A Song of Fire & Ice and often in a way that's improved and simpler, both in terms of mechanical complexity and conceptually (it plays closer to a conventional RPG than most of those listed).

I look forward to reviews, then, because I can't wrap my brain around what you just said.

Quote from: VectorSigma;590419I look forward to reviews, then, because I can't wrap my brain around what you just said.

Its going to be while before I can coherently do a review TBH

In terms of conventionality (subject to the term meaning different things to different people), I would say:

- Anima, Pendragon and A Song of Fire & Ice would be more conventional.
- Exalted and The One Ring would be as conventional.
- Apocalypse World, Mouse Guard and Marvel Heroic would be less conventional.

Yeah, its a dense read and sometimes a bit hard to summarize.

However almost everything in this game is rather traditional.  

Sure, the Aiki/Fates/Kiai/Karma system is a bit odd (and tied a bit to the Buddhist philosophy undertone of the setting), but in practice its not that story-gamey (and I don't have an aversion to Storygames mechanics).  

I mean, except for the ability to enter a scene that you are not normally in (with GM's approval), the Kiai points are pretty much Action Points - spend one to get an extra die on an action.

Your Karma is a bit like character points and a dark side track.  Choosing the archetypes in character generation gives your character a base Karma score (which cannot go above 108 or you fall to the dark side).  The Karma score only increases after that when you spend Kiai, spend experience or requisition special equipment (like soul gem ammunition).

So if you make a powerful character (like the Mecha Pilots) you might be super strong but not have a lot of room for spending your Action points or getting other cool stuff.  Likewise if you are normal warrior with a katana you might be weaker but have lots of room to spend Action points on those important occasions.  Reminds me of a much different way to do the White Hats and Heroes distinctions in Buffy or Angel.

The Fates and Destiny (representing goals, backgrounds, and secrets) help determine how many Kiai points you get and by changing or lowering them between Acts you can reduce your Karma (and there is a intimation that you need to have done something in the previous Act to justify eliminating or changing your Fate).

Its unconventional but again, not really a Storygame.

The Kubuki theatre elements are the structure of the game (Scenes and Acts and Intermissions), as well as the use of Aiki chits for good roleplaying and cool actions.  The game structure itself is not really too far from traditional gaming and I can see running Tenra as I run my other games (straight through), taking intermissions after major events to deal with Kiai and Fates

Seriously, this pretty much the game I was hoping it was.  As I have stated I have no aversion to indie or Storygame mechanics - if it works for me, I use it is my philosophy.  However, I was hoping this game would be a more traditional RPG and I believe it is, some unexpected rule systems notwithstanding.  This game is my new Rifts; in a good way.

I agree. TBZ is definitely unconventional as it tries to alter the RPG experience to cater for the Japanese lifestyle. But it is not a storygame.

I am still astounded that TBZ is over 12 years old and it so feels modern.