So Joethelawyer and friends explored Dwimmermount and Joe was less than impressed.

So my question, Joe, is what were you expecting that Dwimmermount didn't deliver? What would've made it better? What is an example of a published dungeon that 'does it right,' in your experience?

Parallel blogpost from the DM:  http://www.tenkarstavern.com/2012/10/ambition-avarice-session-recap-closing.html

There was some discussion around this on G+ earlier today.  I hope Joe comes by and expands on it.

I don't see why Joe or his group are surprised by any of this. From his description, it fits exactly what James describes as his ideal of old school gaming.

Quote from: VectorSigma;589926Parallel blogpost from the DM:  http://www.tenkarstavern.com/2012/10/ambition-avarice-session-recap-closing.html

There was some discussion around this on G+ earlier today.  I hope Joe comes by and expands on it.

I'd be happy to expand upon it, playing in a G+ game right now run by Gustie Larue, a mega dungeon aboard a ship, which is a perfect example of an old school mega dungeon done perfectly right.  

http://dungeonofsigns.blogspot.com/

What would you have me expand upon?

I made a post about last nights game too. But my opinion probably doesn't matter much. http://www.thecrazygm.com/archives/96

I just meant for this audience.  I had visibility on the G+ discussion, so I think I understand what everybody was saying, but I wouldn't want to speak for the players.

My main problem was there was no motivation to be there. Other than the random encounters, there was nothing to do. There was very little exploration going. All the rooms were similar in description. Even the cool stuff that stood out, the time stop room, the ghost playing tactical games, didn't have anything to offer. The fact that the coins were exactly 1000GP and exactly 2000CP kinda made me flinch. (What were they pre done in penny rolls?)

I don't know, we had fun because we were in good company and had a good GM. But for the dungeon itself. Yawn.

From playing Dwimmermount and reading James' copy, the dungeon favors those who like to explore. It not exactly a place where you can kick ass and be "awesome". Although there is a demonic spider on the first level.

The creator thinks reviewing 33 year old Ares issues & the French cover of B2 are breathtakingly exciting. I'm not surprised his dungeon is humdrum.

I read this earlier today and was really interested by it from a mega-dungeon builder's standpoint.

My immediate question to the players would be: how did the game start, exactly? What was the base opening situation of the game you played?

I want to hear more about these so-called 'empty rooms'.

Quote from: Benoist;589941I read this earlier today and was really interested by it from a mega-dungeon builder's standpoint.

I think this is just a case that the details James chose to focus on did not appeal to this group combined with not hitting any of the few situations that would have interested them.

For me, when I played Dwimmermount I felt that the place had a deep history behind it and that it was a place that was meant to be explored.

Haven't seen it, haven't played it.  Not sure you can just dismiss the criticism though as "Dwimmermount was meant to be explored."  Exploration is an act of discovery.  If there's really not much to discover, then is it really exploration?

Now it could be a level down or three there's a "reveal" as to the purpose of the ghosts playing chess, or maybe the group didn't figure out how to engage them, but mysteries you're never going to solve because there is no explanation(the X-Files, Lost, Prometheus phenomenon) and ancient imagery with no effect or tie-ins other then "Holy shit this crap is old!" aren't really the stuff of great dungeons.

Then again, I'm wondering if the group was looking for B2, and didn't like that Dwimmermount wasn't it.

Quote from: estar;589944I think this is just a case that the details James chose to focus on did not appeal to this group combined with not hitting any of the few situations that would have interested them.

That's insulting.

Quote from: estar;589944For me, when I played Dwimmermount I felt that the place had a deep history behind it and that it was a place that was meant to be explored.

I think we can take for granted now that you will just mindlessly support Dwimmermount so unless you start providing specifics for its 'deep history' and why explorers would want to explore rat shitty empty rooms would you kindly ... shut the fuck up.

The even thousands and hundreds of coins found in D&D used to bother me; I used to subtract 500 or 50 coins from the totals and add a d1000 or d100 roll, but... nowadays I just assume it's done as a "significant figure" conceit, i.e. it's about 2000 gp.