Quote from: RPGPundit;586815And what stops the whole thing from being just a circlewank of players trading XP with each other to get what they want?

RPGPundit

If that's what they enjoy, so what?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;586835If that's what they enjoy, so what?

I'm not sure if that's the right question.

Did AD&D--with all its glorious Gygaxian Building BlocksTM--prevent Dragonlance-style storygaming? Ren fair gaming?

If there were (homeopathic doses of) storygaming elements in TBZ (or any other game) would I be forced to use them?

People interested in storygaming (or storytelling) bend the system to their whim.
I, OTOH, ignore stuff like scene framing.

(Though I did like the fact that players in RPGA tournaments were largely voting among themselves who did "win" at their table. So I am partial to players deciding how to divide xp.)

Who cares if there are 'storygaming' elements in TBZ? If you don't like it dopn't buy it?
God in heaven, i've never ever ever seen anything so ridiculous as this absurd paranoid psychodrama about something NOONE else has a problem with.
Not only that but the definition of storygame is entirely nebulous as to contradict itself with each consecutive game.
I've watched conspiracy truther videos on youtube that had a more sane premise than this.

Quote from: Peregrin;586805Mother of God.

Looks like an average roll for an Exalted game

Quote from: RPGPundit;586818Why would I be afraid of that?

That's true. TBZ has already done extremely well from the KS.

Quote from: RPGPundit;586818That's very true. For example, despite the past two weeks of repeated Storygamer-Swine character-assassination and an outright brutal assault on myself and Precis intermedia, Lords of Olympus has done extremely well, for example.

Are you really play the sympathy card here? :confused: I guess it explains the motives behind you sudden one man irrational outburst here, which came out of the blue Just under two weeks ago. So, you are just copying what you think was done to you, but regardless of evidence or the overwhelming opinion of others?

FWIW AndyK, the guy you are accusing of acting fraudulently for doing nothing more than you have done with LoO, actually said LoO was an interesting and didn't comment on you being the author at all.

Quote from: Skywalker;586897Looks like an average roll for an Exalted game

I'm having horrible flashbacks of counting dice post-parry, and the engineer in me is flipping out, even though there is a sort of odd beauty to excess at times.

Quote from: Skywalker;586897Looks like an average roll for an Exalted game

But... those are d6s

/comically missing the point

Quote from: RPGPundit;586815And what stops the whole thing from being just a circlewank of players trading XP with each other to get what they want?

Same thing that stops them from being tools in D&D. The GM tells them to stop being stupid.

Quote from: vytzka;586933But... those are d6s

A whole 4 less d's!

Quote from: RPGPundit;586818That's very true. For example, despite the past two weeks of repeated Storygamer-Swine character-assassination and an outright brutal assault on myself and Precis intermedia, Lords of Olympus has done extremely well, for example.

"Outright brutal"? Oh, please. It was nothing compared to the Mongoose / Maladicta incident earlier this year.

You're a victim of TBP mods being, well, TBP mods, but even after all that, your game has "done extremely well".

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;586876If there were (homeopathic doses of) storygaming elements in TBZ (or any other game) would I be forced to use them?

That's a very important question, really.  There have been some games lately that tried to be some kind of ill-conceived hybrid between RPGs and storygames where they made it pretty impossible to mechanically excise the storygame elements, and they were basically a potentially good game ruined.
On the other hand, there have also been games lately that tried to foolishly incorporate certain very specific storygame elements into an otherwise regular RPG format, where those very specific elements can be completely removed from play without in any way crippling the game, and the end result has often been a very decent RPG.

So I guess one important question would be whether a GM can choose to remove the player-driven reward system and the Kabuki-theater nonsense and still be left with a completely playable game?

RPGPundit

Quote from: Ladybird;586945"Outright brutal"? Oh, please. It was nothing compared to the Mongoose / Maladicta incident earlier this year.

No, it didn't rise to that level of brutality, but then again, nothing has (so far), so that's hardly a meaningful comparison.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Skywalker;586901Are you really play the sympathy card here? :confused: I guess it explains the motives behind you sudden one man irrational outburst here, which came out of the blue Just under two weeks ago. So, you are just copying what you think was done to you, but regardless of evidence or the overwhelming opinion of others?

FWIW AndyK, the guy you are accusing of acting fraudulently for doing nothing more than you have done with LoO, actually said LoO was an interesting and didn't comment on you being the author at all.

I'm glad to hear it, though that was news to me (not saying it didn't happen, just don't remember seeing his praises).  But your own point is that criticism doesn't automatically harm sales, which I agree with (in some cases, such as when I've given negative reviews, there are even reported sales spikes!), so really, what harm am I doing?

Also, I'm not coming anywhere near to "copying what I think was done to me". I'd have to ignorantly accuse the authors of this game of self-servingly stealing from their dead friends and hypocritically hold them up to standards I'd never hold anyone else up to in order to come close to "copying" what's being done to me.

RPGpundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;587051So I guess one important question would be whether a GM can choose to remove the player-driven reward system and the Kabuki-theater nonsense and still be left with a completely playable game?

Is partially player determined XP rewards a storygame mechanic? I don't see shifting of that responsibility, for a mechanic that appears in all conventional RPGs, fundamentally changes the nature of mechanic.

However, on the positive side, if that's what you are outraged about then yes the responsibility can easily be placed back with the GM.

Quote from: RPGPundit;587057I'm glad to hear it, though that was news to me (not saying it didn't happen, just don't remember seeing his praises).  But your own point is that criticism doesn't automatically harm sales, which I agree with (in some cases, such as when I've given negative reviews, there are even reported sales spikes!), so really, what harm am I doing?

I agree that no harm has been done to TBZ.

In terms of what is being said about you and Erick Wujcik, this is an irrelevant tangent to this thread which is about TBZ. FWIW I don't condone what has been said about that subject any more than I condone your baseless accusations that AndyK is a fraud.

Quote from: RPGPundit;587052No, it didn't rise to that level of brutality, but then again, nothing has (so far), so that's hardly a meaningful comparison.

RPGPundit

like bollocks it didn't.

you really can't take it can you; but you sure like dishing it out. Casting aspersions over other people's work and assuming bizarre paranoid fantasies about their gaming ideologies, yet woe betide someone that dare criticise yours! The word swine is intrinsically insulting and you know it yet you are happy to slap it all over games you haven't even read!