Monte Cook wrote an article about actions in Numera, or how the game plays. What  that means basically is that the GM doesn't roll but the players do, and the experience points function as a narrative mechanic to affect the flow of the events in the game.

Just putting that out there to let you know what the game is about (so you're not surprised if you chip in the kickstarter and whatnot). If you have thoughts or feedback based on this, by all means, let's get a conversation going.

Quote from: Benoist;579542Monte Cook wrote an article about actions in Numera, or how the game plays. What  that means basically is that the GM doesn't roll but the players do, and the experience points function as a narrative mechanic to affect the flow of the events in the game.

Just putting that out there to let you know what the game is about (so you're not surprised if you chip in the kickstarter and whatnot). If you have thoughts or feedback based on this, by all means, let's get a conversation going.

read it earlier.
I like that Monty is trying to brnach out and do different things, but I hate the narrative mechanic.  
It goes against everything I have done and taught, that the GM is not the enemy, he is playing 'the rest of the world', and to use Monty's example of when a second automaton would enter the combat, that is best predecided in the design segment of the GM's job (maybe 1 minute after the players start fighting the other one, etc).

Quote from: Benoist;579542Monte Cook wrote an article about actions in Numera, or how the game plays. What  that means basically is that the GM doesn't roll but the players do, and the experience points function as a narrative mechanic to affect the flow of the events in the game.

Just putting that out there to let you know what the game is about (so you're not surprised if you chip in the kickstarter and whatnot). If you have thoughts or feedback based on this, by all means, let's get a conversation going.

I generally don't have a problem with a "player rolls" mechanism, except in the case where the PC (and thus, player) wouldn't know.

The Narrative Flow/XP mechanic sounds almost exactly like the compel mechanic from FATE. Which is a good thing in my book: I like FATE and I like the particular mechanic.

What troubles me is that he is calling them "XP". Is this something like the way bennies used to work in savage worlds, where you chose between advancing your character and short term influence on the game? I hope not, because (as I have already expressed) that sort of trade-off stinks.

The game sounds like shit.

Also, I very quickly abandoned the "only the players roll" thing in ICONS, and my players seemed to prefer that I have.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;579943The game sounds like shit.

Also, I very quickly abandoned the "only the players roll" thing in ICONS, and my players seemed to prefer that I have.

RPGPundit

well, the DM rolling dice symbolizes the affects of chance in the game world; and also subconsiously symbolizes the 'GM as referee', who is only playing the rest of the world, not playing against the pcs.  When the GM assigns a DC for everything for the players, and then just chooses when or if other things should happen, it destroys that aura of impartiality that is so important in a good GM.

This is definitely not the direction I would prefer, but it isnt a dealbreaker for me. It should be easy enough to ignore, or he may change it as the game develops and feedback comes in. Mechanics like this do seem to be a trend right now. I personally dont think they add much to play.

Gimmicks like this do not make me any more impressed.

Also, as shallow as it makes me, I like rolling weird dice.

Quote from: LordVreeg;579994well, the DM rolling dice symbolizes the affects of chance in the game world; and also subconsiously symbolizes the 'GM as referee', who is only playing the rest of the world, not playing against the pcs.  When the GM assigns a DC for everything for the players, and then just chooses when or if other things should happen, it destroys that aura of impartiality that is so important in a good GM.

Agreed. The GM sets up the world/social situation/combat environment/NPCs - what actually happens in game should have the strong hand of fortune involved. GM rolling dice represents a kind of universal will or perhaps the random indifference of the cosmos. Players generally accept that their PCs die in combat due to some strong GM dice-rolling, if the GM's set-up (balanced or otherwise) is well communicated to the players.

I know some players who would certainly grumble and balk at character death due to Cook's mechanic and GM narrative control (or whatevva you call it).

Also, I don't mind some kind of meta-economy where you can buy yourself out of trouble. But this economy, I think, should only improve your chances (à la Hollow Earth Expedition). Reality revision where "I spend my xp and don't fall in the pit I stupidly walked into" sucks in my books. "I spend my hero point and improve my dexterity check by +X" is better IMO.

I should also clarify my earlier coment, the experience point blog entry is the one with mechancs that dont appeal to me. Having the players roll everything, though admittedly a bit odd, doesn't trouble me if it is done right and the numbers they are rolling against are well set. I have thought about this sort of mechanic before but have never payed using one. I would really need to try it out (as both a player ad GM) to have a sense of how it actually feels.

I was waiting before throwing some bucks at the kickstarter. Some of the ideas seem interesting to me, the one billion years in the future thing, the mix of various types of technologies that end up feeling like magic, all those kinds of things. But the more I learn about the actual mechanics of the game, the less likely I become of actually supporting the product.

I might end up getting in on it for the setting. I'm on the fence at this point.

Quote from: Benoist;580047I was waiting before throwing some bucks at the kickstarter. Some of the ideas seem interesting to me, the one billion years in the future thing, the mix of various types of technologies that end up feeling like magic, all those kinds of things. But the more I learn about the actual mechanics of the game, the less likely I become of actually supporting the product.

I might end up getting in on it for the setting. I'm on the fence at this point.

It has already well exceeded its goal, so I would only support it if the benefits for doing so are appealing enough to you.

I intend to buy the book when it comes out to see how it works in practice (it wouldn't surprise me if ot ends up being quite different than these blog entries suggest or if the elements that dont appeal to me are easy enough to remove---though if the GM not rolling thing is a dealbreaker for you that seems pretty rooted in the core system, cant see an easy work around that).

Quote from: Benoist;580047I was waiting before throwing some bucks at the kickstarter. Some of the ideas seem interesting to me, the one billion years in the future thing, the mix of various types of technologies that end up feeling like magic, all those kinds of things. But the more I learn about the actual mechanics of the game, the less likely I become of actually supporting the product.

I might end up getting in on it for the setting. I'm on the fence at this point.

i did, but cancelled it.  i figure if i wanted to play or run in that kind of setting, i'd be better off applying mechanics that make sense to me already rather than learning another system.

Quote from: beeber;580065i did, but cancelled it.  i figure if i wanted to play or run in that kind of setting, i'd be better off applying mechanics that make sense to me already rather than learning another system.

This...
Is always my default position.

Quote from: Benoist;579542Monte Cook wrote an article about actions in Numera, or how the game plays. What  that means basically is that the GM doesn't roll but the players do, and the experience points function as a narrative mechanic to affect the flow of the events in the game.

Nothing too shocking here. I've seen that narrative control mechanic before and it's often been implemented as nothing more than a "fate point" style spice, so it really depends on exactly how prevalent the system makes it.

The realization that most roleplaying game mechanics are algebra equations and you can totally add modifiers to either side of the equation has also been seen several dozen times before.

I don't want to be too cynical, but this stuff reads like the designer's notes from a dozen "I've only played D&D" fantasy heartbreakers. I know that doesn't actually describe Cook, but it really does sound like "SKILLS ARE SO MUCH MORE REALISTIC THAN CLASSES" rhetoric to me.

Another thing that keeps me off the kickstarter is the contents of the "real deal", which comes with only one actual print product, the Numenera core book itself. It's got a shitload of bonus content in the form of PDFs, but that's just it: this is electronic content. I've come to value PDFs less and less over the last few years, because I end up hoarding them without reading them.

QuoteTHE REAL DEAL $60 Level (+$10 shipping outside North America)
App (Android, iOS, or PC)
Name in the back of the corebook
Player's Guide PDF
Numenera corebook PDF
The Devil's Spine 32-page adventure PDF
The Mechanized Tomb 32-page adventure PDF
The Other Side of the Maelstrom 32-page adventure PDF
The Ninth World Bestiary 160-page PDF
Sir Arthur's Compendium 160-page PDF
Numenera 3D Paper Fold-Up Terrain PDF
GM's Screen PDF
Numenera corebook in print

That's a problem for me. A 32-page adventure on the computer I can read. A 160-page sourcebook, much less likely. I need an actual print product to get the most value out of it, personally, at this point. So I'd get the $60 "real deal" and, assuming I like the game, I'd pay more afterwards to get print copies of content I would already have, technically? See, if you really love PDFs that's an AWESOME value in terms of content. If you don't have the time or inclination to read PDFs on a computer/tablet/whatnot, you're kind of screwed on the stretch goals and bonus content. Stuff keeps being added to it, but at the same time there's nothing there that makes me go "OK that's it, I'm going to pitch in."