The primary core of authors, and many of the long-time game designers, who have worked on D&D as freelance contributors are getting a bit more respect of late...  There was quiet a kerfuffle recently about "input", and although the corporate mind is still difficult to work with, they have become more open, in both game design and realms input.  And hopefully, not treating their contributors like "fanboys"...  Although the final say on any "contributions" is still under the control of the management guys at WotC...

The primary person to thank for this, I believe, is R.A. Salvatore.  His clout with his popularity carries a lot of weight.

Quote from: CAJackson;578587The primary core of authors, and many of the long-time game designers, who have worked on D&D as freelance contributors are getting a bit more respect of late...  There was quiet a kerfuffle recently about "input", and although the corporate mind is still difficult to work with, they have become more open, in both game design and realms input.  And hopefully, not treating their contributors like "fanboys"...  Although the final say on any "contributions" is still under the control of the management guys at WotC...

The primary person to thank for this, I believe, is R.A. Salvatore.  His clout with his popularity carries a lot of weight.

I have to say he always impressives me in interviews. Very down to earth.

Like Salvatore gives a shit about the setting; he sells books, he doesn't play games. If something in the D&D game gets in the way of what he wants to write, guess what, he ignores that shit because game rules make for a shitty book.

And Ed Greenwood is creepy as shit and is a very mediocre writer at best. Salvatore's no great author but he's apparently a cool guy and writes fight scenes incredibly well; Greenwood is just a supercreep who puts self-inserts of himself everywhere to have pretend sex with everyone that stands still for fifteen seconds.

Quote from: Darwinism;578779Like Salvatore gives a shit about the setting; he sells books, he doesn't play games. If something in the D&D game gets in the way of what he wants to write, guess what, he ignores that shit because game rules make for a shitty book.

And Ed Greenwood is creepy as shit and is a very mediocre writer at best. Salvatore's no great author but he's apparently a cool guy and writes fight scenes incredibly well; Greenwood is just a supercreep who puts self-inserts of himself everywhere to have pretend sex with everyone that stands still for fifteen seconds.

Once again, you are wrong.  Salvator is a gamer.  From an interview on reddit last month:

Quote from: SalvatorWell, for board games and tabletop, there's Risk, War and Peace and of course, D&D (with a little GURPS thrown in). It's funny because I still play 1st Edition.

As for Greenwood, do you have an opinion of your own, or just parroting the SA goons?

*Edit* And really him being creepy isn't relevant to him being there.  If he were really as bad as your hyperbole would suggest, do you think WoTC would have him front and center?  He's there because he created Forgotten Realms, and that setting sells, whether you like it or not.  Since he's the creator of a setting that is the most popular ever, he must have done something right.

Quote from: Darwinism;578779Like Salvatore gives a shit about the setting; he sells books, he doesn't play games. If something in the D&D game gets in the way of what he wants to write, guess what, he ignores that shit because game rules make for a shitty book.

And Ed Greenwood is creepy as shit and is a very mediocre writer at best. Salvatore's no great author but he's apparently a cool guy and writes fight scenes incredibly well; Greenwood is just a supercreep who puts self-inserts of himself everywhere to have pretend sex with everyone that stands still for fifteen seconds.

Salvatore is a gamer. He has mentioned it in plenty of interviews. In fact I believe he games with a number of other writer-designers from the boston area.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;578781As for Greenwood, do you have an opinion of your own, or just parroting the SA goons?

*Edit* And really him being creepy isn't relevant to him being there.  If he were really as bad as your hyperbole would suggest, do you think WoTC would have him front and center?  He's there because he created Forgotten Realms, and that setting sells, whether you like it or not.  Since he's the creator of a setting that is the most popular ever, he must have done something right.

C'mon, Sacrosanct, one wouldn't have to be a goon or goon-poser to assess that Greenwood is a mediocre (fiction?) writer, or to have heard about "who's banging whom" in the Greenwood Home Version of the Realms, that's been in several interviews over the years.

I agree that Greenwood's touch is somehow magical for sales, over and above whatever positive qualities he brings to his game materials (and no matter what else we may think of him as a novelist or general oddball, a lot of the original FR material is nice).  The dude's an idea factory much of the time, even if some of 'em are misses rather than hits; combine that with the "ooh! Faerun!  Ooh!  Greenwood!" fan club and it's $$$.

Quote from: VectorSigma;578792C'mon, Sacrosanct, one wouldn't have to be a goon or goon-poser to assess that Greenwood is a mediocre (fiction?) writer, or to have heard about "who's banging whom" in the Greenwood Home Version of the Realms, that's been in several interviews over the years.

I agree that Greenwood's touch is somehow magical for sales, over and above whatever positive qualities he brings to his game materials (and no matter what else we may think of him as a novelist or general oddball, a lot of the original FR material is nice).  The dude's an idea factory much of the time, even if some of 'em are misses rather than hits; combine that with the "ooh! Faerun!  Ooh!  Greenwood!" fan club and it's $$$.

Hell, NYT Best Seller's not that huge of an honor when Sue Grafton and Stephen King regularly get it.

Greenwood being popular is really, really understandable; he's a fairly bad author that writes about chubby old self-inserts sleeping with 18-year-old thieves and wizards and goddesses and anything else with a pulse. Same reason cheesecake has such a strong hold. Desperate nerds are desperate nerds.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;578781As for Greenwood, do you have an opinion of your own, or just parroting the SA goons?

Darwinism ISN'T an SA goon?

JG

What strikes me with the names dropped as the people who will (re)do Forgotten Realms is that it's old people. People who were round doing games, worlds and books in the 80s &90s, which makes me ask, who are WoTC trying to woe with this "new" Forgotten Realms? "Old" gamers that we around back when FR came out or new/younger gamers?

It seems to me, that the old target group will be very hard to please, no matter what, and that the younger group might not be as interested in a world created by weird seniors, whos cred is rather ancient, like Greenwood.

And is it just me or is "The Sundering" a really terrible name?

Quote from: Darwinism;579046Hell, NYT Best Seller's not that huge of an honor when Sue Grafton and Stephen King regularly get it.

So King is a hack, too?  Um... just because you do not care for an author's style or form, doesn't mean his/her work is "bad".  Being an NYT Bestseller is not the same type of honor as a Nebula or a Hugo, but it means your fans like your work.  I'll grant, there are a few stinkers on the list **cough** 50 shades **cough** but when an author turns out consistently high-selling work and earns the respect of their peers, as King has, maybe it's time to look at your own assessment of their work more critically.

Ed Greenwood is incredibly creative.  He is also incredibly prolific, and a workhorse for WotC, not to mention a very giving and generous writer, willing to help his co-writers and others.  Self-centered?  You have obviously never met the man.  He is, and will admit himself, that he is not a top notch novelist, but again, his creativity is top notch.  For WotC to make changes in the Realms without his consultation is frankly stupid.  When they started treating Ed like crap, RA told them that if Ed walked away, he would also walk away, and take Drizzt with him... The corporate wigs backed off. Kudos to RA for standing up for the man to whom he owes virtually everything.  

As a general rule, below the level of major contributors and game design pros like RA and Ed, respectively, novelists don't make world changes on their own initiative.  Rule: you get to play in the sandbox, but you can't break the toys.

Quote from: Darwinism;579046Hell, NYT Best Seller's not that huge of an honor when Sue Grafton and Stephen King regularly get it.

Nerd hipsterism is the most annoying kind of hipsterism.

Quote from: Piestrio;579093Nerd hipsterism is the most annoying kind of hipsterism.

Hating hipsters is getting too mainstream.  I used to too, but it was before people were calling them that.

Quote from: Panzerkraken;579094Hating hipsters is getting too mainstream.  I used to too, but it was before people were calling them that.

We're circling back around.

It's like the Ouroboros only instead of a snake forever devouring itself its a geek forever shoving his head up his own ass.

I skipped 4e FR, but my 3e is pretty similar to all the other crap.  

Tell me, what happened to 4e FR that made it the Bizarro version?

Quote from: Blackhand;579115I skipped 4e FR, but my 3e is pretty similar to all the other crap.  

Tell me, what happened to 4e FR that made it the Bizarro version?

They moved the time line on a lot, so its about 100 years (?) later. Taking a complicated setting and making it even more complex. Lots of people's favourite NPCs are now dead - Lots of people's least favourite NPC's are just fine.

A huge new land mass shows up... basically from another dimension and wipes out the continent that is already there.

A thing called the 'Spellplague' (a contender for the worst name ever) fucks over everybody's magic to explain why 4th edition wizards are so crap.

Loads of gods die, mainly from stupidity and acting somewhat out of character.

I think they also wiped out Candlekeep, which many realms fan's took as a massive 'Fuck You'. (as it's the name of the most popular FR forums).