I like LA, but I don't think it ever got the published presentation it deserved.  And frankly, I thought the TLG "Essentials" boxed set was a mess.  Weak though it is, I prefer the presentation of the Hekaforge books, and would recommend those to anyone checking out the game.  (Not only because of the presentation, but also because they're the complete game.)

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;577876I like LA, but I don't think it ever got the published presentation it deserved.  And frankly, I thought the TLG "Essentials" boxed set was a mess.  Weak though it is, I prefer the presentation of the Hekaforge books, and would recommend those to anyone checking out the game.  (Not only because of the presentation, but also because they're the complete game.)

Ya, it's true about the Hekaforge content being just plain more, but they just didn't have the effect the form factor of the boxed set had for the players.  The second printing of the boxed set did have some additional content inserts that help.  The boxed set with Master's Lore is a good combination of the two editions I find.  It's a fun campaign we are having with it right now.

The boxed set with the Living the Legend content are the rules set for the present campaign.  I use Master’s Lore and to a certain degree the  Hekaforge core rule book for advice when creating new orders, races and other campaign specifics, as I have for the present Stygia campaign, which obviously doesn't include Ilfs, Oafs, etcetera.  I find the ability lists and equipment lists superior in the boxed set, which is good for character creation and other aspects of player use.

So Asterogues v.4.0 is still restricted to the hard drives of a few cogniscenti?

Quote from: Killfuck Soulshitter;577950So Asterogues v.4.0 is still restricted to the hard drives of a few cogniscenti?

So it would seem.  Perhaps one of the few that have it will distribute it someday.  It was a play test after all.

Seriously, I get off the Gygax-worship train when someone tries to claim Cyborg Commando was a "fun little" anything.  It was an unplayable pile of crap, that I can only attribute to Gary being totally shell-shocked from his recent experiences. And to avoid re-writing history, it should be remembered it sullied his reputation as a game designer for YEARS after that, not completely recovering from it until the last 10 years or so of his life.

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Quote from: RPGPundit;578258Seriously, I get off the Gygax-worship train when someone tries to claim Cyborg Commando was a "fun little" anything.  It was an unplayable pile of crap, that I can only attribute to Gary being totally shell-shocked from his recent experiences. And to avoid re-writing history, it should be remembered it sullied his reputation as a game designer for YEARS after that, not completely recovering from it until the last 10 years or so of his life.

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Shrug.  I wasn't really wanting to talk about Cyborg.  I don't know why you always see it as worship, when Gygax is brought up.  It is sort of condescending to say that.  I don't feel that way about anything in role-play games at all, not even remotely.  People expected Cyborg to be a miracle of gaming?  It was just a side project that was unpopular, and it had various good reasons for that unpopularity.  Yet, to jump ship over it is knee jerk.  Why did you write Gnomemurdered?  Not to make the next revolution in games.  It was a fun concept you had.  Just because it's Gary doesn't mean he couldn't have felt that way sometimes too.  He took some rules that he was thinking of with a fellow game designer, and we have Cyborg.  He didn't get a complaint drawn up because of it.  So there is that.

It would be good to hear of any new updates on Arrows of Indra for the week.

I see it as "worship" because if Cyborg Commando had any name on it other than "Gary Gygax" no one would be trying to claim it was anything more than a horrible pile of shit.

If you only admire Gygax, rather than worship him, you don't need to make excuses for or try to gloss over terrible mistakes.

I have tremendous admiration for Gygax, as the guy who gave us the fucking hobby, and designed what is still pretty much its best most enduring game.  But I have no problem calling his steaming pile of shit just what it was, and feeling that most of his other work (while none of it bad, aside from Cyborg Commando) was far from inspired genius.  That's ok. A lot of the greatest works of human history were one-hit wonders.

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I agree in many ways that Cyborg Commando was, atrocious. Which is why I'm trying to take the same idea, and do something good with it.  

On the other hand, while not genius, I actually liked aspects of Dangerous Journeys/Mythus.

I thought the Mythus setting book ("epic of aerth"?) was really good.

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Quote from: RPGPundit;578570I thought the Mythus setting book ("epic of aerth"?) was really good.

What's it like?

Quote from: The Butcher;578580What's it like?

A big fat book that presents a world very similar to Earth, but has kind of archetypal fantasy versions of all the different regions of the world. Plus things like the faerie courts.. its been a long while since I read it, but I remember liking it.

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Hrrrmmm... Yes, I have Mythus, Dangerous Journeys, the Lejendary Rules along with the Lejend Master's Lore in my games library. While I haven't played any of these standalone, they are remarkably good RPG reference guides, and have serious amounts of old school pen & line art. Dangerous Journeys alone features different RPG art on just about every single page!

It was a good quality book, by the standards of the time.

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Thread of old, arise from your grave!

Rather than starting a thread covering old ground, I thought I'd just add to this one to get the prep work out of the way.  

I liked some of the concepts of Lejendary Adventure, and wished Gary had had time for a good editor to come through and give it a good presentation. Does anyone know what its fate is at the moment? Are there plans to revive it along with other stuff he was working on (Castle Zagyg, which I missed the first time 'round), or is everything still in limbo?

Also, has a more updated copy of Lejendary AsteRogues appeared anywhere?

Also, Cyborg Commando had one interesting thing: the d10xd10 dice mechanic. The rest was crap, but I thought that multiplying the d10s together was interesting. I'm not really sure what the results curve looks like for it, but I always wanted it to appear in something else.  

Quote from: Atsuku Nare;825440Thread of old, arise from your grave!

Dittos on that.

QuoteI liked some of the concepts of Lejendary Adventure, and wished Gary had had time for a good editor to come through and give it a good presentation.

Yeah, with a few fixes--and by fixes, I mean addressing some errors, not some other designer rebuilding parts in his own image--it's pretty much exactly what an RPG ought to be. The core system is simple and straight-forward but flexible enough to apply to almost anything. Once you get the hang of how it works, it in a way re-educates you so you can go back and play older games and get even more out of them, running them far more smoothly.

I like that it didn't go out of its way to re-invent the wheel or become overly "elegant" by which I mean symmetric to the point of killing all life and nuance. Unfortunately, that's the goofy shit that it sells because it gives critics something to latch onto without having to put in a genuine effort to actually learn the game. But for a guy who wants to just play a goddamn game rather than change the world, this is the way to go.

QuoteDoes anyone know what its fate is at the moment?

This has been a source of frustration for me. Shy of Gary's group, my own group was probably the most active LA group there was. I was asked numerous times to write and publish for the game, and I declined. Again, I'm just a guy who wants to play. People, including Gary, just started asking my permission to lift my message board postings for publication. I finally caved and agreed to co-author a book for the LA line with Gary himself. It was about 99% complete when Gary passed.

I haven't heard a peep. Which I suppose is a good thing. The guy who ran Lejendary.com, putting in time and money to develop it and keep it running, shut the site down completely after hearing from the family, because all they did was demand he hand over this and that and the other thing.

My group and I are so sad at how his family not just dropped the ball on LA, but flat-out killed it. It's to the point we're starting to think of just republishing the whole thing and just let the family try to find us and stop us.

One of the guys from Lejendary.com ripped off the game almost whole cloth, modifying it to plug in his two cents, his laundry list of things he wanted different, and has self-published it under the title Perilous Journeys. I feel it's too full of gratuitous add-ons to capture the spirit of the original. The most recent edition switched the core mechanic over to a d1000 system, if that's any indication for you.

QuoteAre there plans to revive it along with other stuff he was working on (Castle Zagyg, which I missed the first time 'round), or is everything still in limbo?

My understanding of the priorities just before Gary died was that Castle Zagyg was supposed to be the top priority. It was supposed to be a mega-campaign that served as his legacy, adding a lot of content that the hobby in general was missing. If that's gone off the radar, you can forget about everything else. If someone actually get around to publishing his backlog, there's a good 3 to 5 years worth of releases there, at least.

QuoteAlso, has a more updated copy of Lejendary AsteRogues appeared anywhere?

As far as I know, there hasn't. The one linked in this thread is the exact same version as the printed manuscript I've had for about 16 years. Version 2.1 for the "players" book, last updated in 1999, and version 2.0 for the other two, last updated Sept 1997. The beta of the fantasy game Lejendary Adventure is from April 1997. Although I am in possession of copies of Gary's hand-drawn hex maps for Lejendary Earth.

QuoteAlso, Cyborg Commando had one interesting thing: the d10xd10 dice mechanic.

This is usually the first thing I bitch about when I pick up a new RPG. An "interesting" dice mechanic. I don't understand this need to reinvent the wheel.