What about the relationship between alignment languages and common?

I mean, if we go with the theory (I don't, but for argument's sake...) that alignment languages are like slang or 'cant', then what are they a slang of?

If they're all slangs of Common, then what about two people who share the same alignment but one of them doesn't speak Common? In a real life example, I might pepper my language with references that give me away as a Monty Python fan or an anarchist or whatever, but if the guy standing in front of me is Vietnamese who's also a Monthy Python fan or an anarchist and he doesn't speak a word of Hungarian, English, Japanese or Italian, we're just not going to communicate, because all my slang is in the wrong language.

I could imagine them more as separate languages associated, to use real world examples, with certain professions. Most doctors are likely to speak at least a bit of Latin, career diplomats are likely to have a bit of French, etc.. Now, the example is imperfect, because Latin and French also exist as languages on their own, but you get the idea.

Quote from: Premier;567578What about the relationship between alignment languages and common?

I mean, if we go with the theory (I don't, but for argument's sake...) that alignment languages are like slang or 'cant', then what are they a slang of?

If they're all slangs of Common, then what about two people who share the same alignment but one of them doesn't speak Common? In a real life example, I might pepper my language with references that give me away as a Monty Python fan or an anarchist or whatever, but if the guy standing in front of me is Vietnamese who's also a Monthy Python fan or an anarchist and he doesn't speak a word of Hungarian, English, Japanese or Italian, we're just not going to communicate, because all my slang is in the wrong language.

I could imagine them more as separate languages associated, to use real world examples, with certain professions. Most doctors are likely to speak at least a bit of Latin, career diplomats are likely to have a bit of French, etc.. Now, the example is imperfect, because Latin and French also exist as languages on their own, but you get the idea.

Again though, you run into the problem that you can't learn the languages, and if your alignment changes, you automatically speak your new alignment language instead of your old one, and can no longer communicate in the old language.  It's that aspect that Bill keeps bringing up as a cosmology thing.  If it's based on the patronage of a deity or an affiliation with a specific plane, or a spiritual resonance, it becomes more appropriate as written, IMO.

Quote from: Panzerkraken;567580Again though, you run into the problem that you can't learn the languages, and if your alignment changes, you automatically speak your new alignment language instead of your old one, and can no longer communicate in the old language.  It's that aspect that Bill keeps bringing up as a cosmology thing.  If it's based on the patronage of a deity or an affiliation with a specific plane, or a spiritual resonance, it becomes more appropriate as written, IMO.

Okay, with that in mind, perhaps it's like this:

Consider Latin today. People with literary/historical background would know classical poetry and aphorisms. Lawyers would know legal terms. Doctors, anatomy. Clergy would Church Latin. It's a separate language from your native one, and you only know a part of it, but that part can be used to communicate ideas within the typical topics of your "alignment". And if you change your area of interest, your knowledge will eventually get rusty in one topic while you'll improve in another.

I still do not see how it cannot work, especially since we already use similar modes of communication already in everyday life. Where do you see the logic failing from a NG person communicating his NG-ness to an NG but not to an LG, CG, or N alignment? Your setting is your setting, but just because a concept holds a particular ethos doesn't mean any ethos overlap has any bearing on the modalities of in-group communication assumptions.

Symbols are good example here. Just because one exists does not guarantee it will be interpreted the same. And even if it is interpreted with broadly similar overlapping ethos assumptions does not preclude minor deviations bringing a separate and (assumed by its followers) deeper understanding to it.

And that Monty Python example cracks me up. I can remember many a time overseas when I would come across those without a lick of real English knowledge but could bust out their favorite English song with all the lyrics. And even then I remember how hip hop fans tried to emulate what they perceived was hip hop. Similar fans understood the sentiment even if their perspectives on what is truly hip hop diverged.

One of the more hilarious notes was those who translated some non-English hip hop and it ended up rapping about doing your homework and being good to your mama and eat your veggies. However there were other non-English hip hop acts who did get and echo an anti-establishment/underground ethos that was en vogue to another English speaking hip hop fan. The secret to these two understanding each other even though they didn't understand the language (and others who didn't fully understand the aesthetic he was searching for)?: the in-club performance showing resentment and rebellion to non-English authority. And thus a kinship connection was formed...


So aesthetics can travel in complicated and nuanced ways wholly divorced from the full complications of language. And, as the latter hip hop example indicates, ethos can travel just as well, even embedded within another aesthetic. The world's mightily complicated true, but you'll be surprised what people can do to make sense through the babble. Language is one thing (and a very beautiful and complicated thing), but it's not the sole method of communication that humans use (and by extrapolation imaginary humanoids, too).

If you don't see it working for you, fine. But I know how it fits in games I run. I've already seen things in action that give me a basis to know how to run it.

QuoteSo aesthetics can travel in complicated and nuanced ways wholly divorced from the full complications of language. And, as the latter hip hop example indicates, ethos can travel just as well, even embedded within another aesthetic. The world's mightily complicated true, but you'll be surprised what people can do to make sense through the babble.

Sure, in worlds with mass media. Maybe your fantasy worlds have mass media! But if not it is harder to buy the idea of alignment language as some sort of amorphous meme transmission ("there goes that wizard talking about 'privilege' again"), or, for that matter, the existence of otherwise physically diffuse subcultures (as opposed to, say, specific mystery cults or the like).

I don't think alignment languages work very well unless alignment is a big, intrusive, supernatural aspect of your game world.

Well that goes back to the original comments where it matters what your setting is like. If it's not useful for your games, it's not useful. But my settings, even without mass media or priest spells (the big, intrusive, supernatural aspect to a game world), can easily work alignment languages in. Like knows kind throughout the ages; people tend to fall into circles they understand and prefer. For me, extrapolating that into shared ethos isn't very hard or requires explicit supernatural intervention.

But hey, if you can't see it making sense in your settings that's fine as well.

Quote from: Bill;567536Here is why the logic does not work.

A NG person can not use this mode of communication with CG, LG, or N people.

The logic does not work.

No to mention none of us can use this mode of communication in real life.

Seriously, I never get secret body language communication from people based on alignment.

Based on other factors, sure. But not on alignment.

I do. Granted, its within allegiance to certain groups, but that implies a common language of alignment, that others, on the outside do not have.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;568236I do. Granted, its within allegiance to certain groups, but that implies a common language of alignment, that others, on the outside do not have.

RPGPundit

So you are an Assasin! you can learn alignment languages!

Quote from: Bill;568518So you are an Assasin! you can learn alignment languages!

I'm a freemason. Amongst other things.

RPGPundit

He's also a freecarpenter and a freeplumber.

Quote from: Premier;568809He's also a freecarpenter and a freeplumber.

Anyone who knows me would know I'm definitely not either of those things!

RPGPundit