Quote from: Sommerjon;567366Exactly.  anecdote isn't data, yet you are trying to push your 'anecdote data' as being "more true" than mine.

No, I'm saying that both anecdotes are equally irrelevant.

Of course the idea that more people play Aftermath then Call of Cthulhu is ludicrous on it's face.  Compare numbers of supplements and editions, look up the con schedules for any con EVER.  The ones that even had Aftermath sure didn't have more events then Call of Cthulhu.  Check DTRPG stats.  Any metric you could possibly think of other then your asshole would prove the opposite.

It's like saying 'Well where I come from, we play Faro more then Bridge or Poker."  Unless you mean you and your friends in your basement, founding members of the butt-fuck nowhere Faro Association - it's BULLSHIT.

Either you're referring to a very small group of people, and are being a troll to draw a dishonest inference from there or it's simply a bald-faced lie from the get-go.  To either one, the answer is the same.

Quote from: CRKrueger;566532Call of Cthulhu is a game of emulating Lovecraft's stories, not Horror Movies from TV Tropes.

Yet it does a shit job of actually emulating those stories.

What CoC does is based on those stories, and it's enjoyable to play, but it's different.

Quote from: game.monkey;567221Yeah, the game should emulate Lovecraft, BRP isn't brilliant at that.  The characters in his stories don't often fail library use or miss important clues due to poor skills, they tend to succceed at all that kind of stuff.  The building of some tension in the stories also relies on things happening when dramatically important, not having strict dog positioning rules - the hounds turn up when its scary - from a roleplaying tension point of view, when players screw up a roll for example.

Or what the monkey said.

Quote from: Akrasia;567228Fair enough.  I forgot about Nephelim.  Indeed, I know absolutely nothing about the game, except that it was published by Chaosium at some point.

It's a French game, and the third edition is GORGEOUS! Though I don't think it's BRP based. I'll find out as soon as I learn more French

Quote from: Dimitrios;567284Totally this. Not in reference to CoC in particular, but if there's one aspect of the "new school" attitude towards game design that puts me off it's the obsession with "If we could only understand and take active advantage of social aspects of the game...then we'd really have something!"

Fixed your spelling.

Quote from: jcfiala;567331It's hard to say about Elfquest.  It was pretty darn popular, and did go on to have a second edition and at least one or two supplements, so I think it was selling alright.

It was also one of the most solid BRP games I have ever seen.

Quote from: chaosvoyager;567481It's a French game, and the third edition is GORGEOUS! Though I don't think it's BRP based. I'll find out as soon as I learn more French

The first two editions are BRP. The third is not, and this one in particular is a steaming pile of shit, actually, mechanically speaking, though gloriously presented in layout, as you mentioned.

Nephilim was crap (the english version at least, never read the french versions), but I do remember thinking the random past-life tables were cool.  Too bad the rest of the game sucked so awfully.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;567500Nephilim was crap (the english version at least, never read the french versions), but I do remember thinking the random past-life tables were cool.  Too bad the rest of the game sucked so awfully.

RPGPundit

Fuck that hurts to read this honestly. The game deserves so much better than this pile of shit of a translation. The second edition in particular has a shitload of possible incarnations and options within the incarnations themselves to choose not only who you got incarnated in, one or several people, but which occult events you participated in in that time period and how it affected your skills, your KA, your occult sciences (Magick, Kabbala and Alchemy) and your spells, pentacles, keys, formulas from there.

Quote from: Benoist;567555Fuck that hurts to read this honestly. The game deserves so much better than this pile of shit of a translation. The second edition in particular has a shitload of possible incarnations and options within the incarnations themselves to choose not only who you got incarnated in, one or several people, but which occult events you participated in in that time period and how it affected your skills, your KA, your occult sciences (Magick, Kabbala and Alchemy) and your spells, pentacles, keys, formulas from there.

Guess you have another game to start translating then.  

Quote from: CRKrueger;567575Guess you have another game to start translating then.  

Ha!

Quote from: RPGPundit;567500Nephilim was crap (the english version at least, never read the french versions), but I do remember thinking the random past-life tables were cool.  Too bad the rest of the game sucked so awfully.

RPGPundit

I bet you never even read it.

Just something else for you to moan and whine about.

Quote from: CRKrueger;567397Of course the idea that more people play Aftermath then Call of Cthulhu is ludicrous on it's face.  Compare numbers of supplements and editions, look up the con schedules for any con EVER.  The ones that even had Aftermath sure didn't have more events then Call of Cthulhu.  Check DTRPG stats.  Any metric you could possibly think of other then your asshole would prove the opposite.

It's like saying 'Well where I come from, we play Faro more then Bridge or Poker."  Unless you mean you and your friends in your basement, founding members of the butt-fuck nowhere Faro Association - it's BULLSHIT.

Either you're referring to a very small group of people, and are being a troll to draw a dishonest inference from there or it's simply a bald-faced lie from the get-go.  To either one, the answer is the same.

Reading comprehension isn't one of you strong suits is it?

Quote from: game.monkey;567221Yeah, the game should emulate Lovecraft, BRP isn't brilliant at that.  The characters in his stories don't often fail library use or miss important clues due to poor skills, they tend to succceed at all that kind of stuff.

No, the game should not emulate Lovecraft's stories - nor do I think it tries. What it does try to do (and succeeds at IMO) is to translate the atmosphere and events of the stories into a role-playing game environment.

Of course HPL doesn't write about characters in the book missing clues. Firstly, most of them are first-person narratives, and the characters would only be able to talk about the clues they found, since they wouldn't even know about the ones they missed. Secondly, the idea behind adding rolls to this game (like most RPGs) is to add some tension and excitement at the table while playing it (not the same as tension in a story!), and also to add some randomization to the game so that the outcome remains unpredictable. By giving the players the oportunity to miss some clues and not others, you are allowing the story of the game to emerge somewhat more organically. Natually, this doesn't emulate fiction - nor is it intended to. It's first and foremost a game that should generate fun and chills at the table. It's not designed to generate a short story that people can read afterwards - and there's nothing wrong with that.

Quote from: Thalaba;567587No, the game should not emulate Lovecraft's stories - nor do I think it tries. What it does try to do (and succeeds at IMO) is to translate the atmosphere and events of the stories into a role-playing game environment.

Of course HPL doesn't write about characters in the book missing clues. Firstly, most of them are first-person narratives, and the characters would only be able to talk about the clues they found, since they wouldn't even know about the ones they missed. Secondly, the idea behind adding rolls to this game (like most RPGs) is to add some tension and excitement at the table while playing it (not the same as tension in a story!), and also to add some randomization to the game so that the outcome remains unpredictable. By giving the players the oportunity to miss some clues and not others, you are allowing the story of the game to emerge somewhat more organically. Natually, this doesn't emulate fiction - nor is it intended to. It's first and foremost a game that should generate fun and chills at the table. It's not designed to generate a short story that people can read afterwards - and there's nothing wrong with that.

Whenever this subject comes up, I like to point out that, in early printings of the game, right below the title on the cover of the book it reads "Roleplaying in the worlds of H.P. Lovecraft." It's a small but critical distinction from "Roleplaying in the stories of H.P. Lovecraft."

I never played Call of Cthulhu to live out one of Lovecraft's stories (there's De Profundis for that), I played it to play in a world that felt like the same world as that in which Lovecraft's stories took place. It's a subtle difference, but it's the unltimate definer for me of why I dislike "Narrative"-based RPGs, despite those being all the rage these days.

Quote from: Sommerjon;567584Reading comprehension isn't one of you strong suits is it?

That's why when you lie you lie by implication, so that you can deny it, right?

Quote from: Sommerjon;567265I don't have a limited experience.  Sure if I'd been playing with the same 6 guys since middle school in 76 you would have a point.   I haven't though.

Hell I've seen more people actually playing Aftermath then I have ever seen playing CoC.

The second sentence itself means nothing if you play with your 6 friends, but ah, you don't just play with your 6 friends, according to you, you have "experience" that is not "limited".

So what exactly is your experience then, what is your selection size of players when you claim (trying not to laugh here) that you've actually seen more people playing Aftermath then CoC?

After spewing a long post on the thread at yog-sothoth, the thing I eventually came to realize is that I'm most confused with a marketing decision that might diverge CoC 7E from BRP BGB.  Those are the only two versions of BRP based games that Chaosium still controls, so I don't understand doing anything that would separate their mechanics.