Quote from: Benoist;556296:boohoo:

Wow, what a mess. But as everyone knows whine is always better with a bit of cheese.  Talk about pissing in the wind. Ghost Whistler you're taking the cake in this thread.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;556306That's not how free speech works my lad.

No, shit-for-brains, it's not.

It's Pundit's private website; you have exactly as much free speech as he allows, and not an iota more.

You wanna stand on a corner and rant about story games, you have the freedom to do so. But you have no right to demand that the Washington Post give you column inches to rant about it, nor do you have the right to tell the site's owner when or where or how you should be allowed to discuss it.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;556336Just not wherever.

I can't take a shit wherever i want to. Awful isn't it?

Did the UK pass some Right-Wing law or something?  I often wonder if GW's cycles are tied to anything over there.

Quote from: One Horse Town;556345I can't take a shit wherever i want to.

You limeys just don't get FREEDOM.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;556344No, shit-for-brains, it's not.

It's Pundit's private website; you have exactly as much free speech as he allows, and not an iota more.

You wanna stand on a corner and rant about story games, you have the freedom to do so. But you have no right to demand that the Washington Post give you column inches to rant about it, nor do you have the right to tell the site's owner when or where or how you should be allowed to discuss it.

If you actually believe that you really are ignorant.

Quote from: One Horse Town;556345I can't take a shit wherever i want to. Awful isn't it?

So this is really a website where anyone that you don't like gets insulted and their opinions traduced. I know another place like that...

Quote from: CRKrueger;556346Did the UK pass some Right-Wing law or something?  I often wonder if GW's cycles are tied to anything over there.

I'm getting a little tired of the abuse.

Use the fucking multiquote, please.

Quote from: CRKrueger;556163or, that there really is no difference between the different forms of games, (which is most of the storygame talk here, IME).  

Of course there's a difference. There's a huge fucking difference; I'd put the dividing line at "does the system cope if you try to do something outside the rules", personally. If the system falls over, it's definitely a storygame. They're both games, and they can both feature role playing, but they aren't the same.

You can play an RPG as a storygame - I had a very enjoyable Feng Shui storysession earlier this year - but not vice versa.

My issue isn't with there being a distinction, because there is one (Have I repeated that enough yet?). I simply don't agree with where the dividing line is drawn, even after reading quite a lot of Pundit's writing. Of the games I've played that would fall on the story side here, I can agree with Remember Tomorrow and In A Wicked Age (RT fell apart two scenes in, and while I enjoyed IAWA the stake setting ruined the game's pacing, right at the peak of each scene), Dread (Jenga) would be on the line (I'd say RPG, but I could see why people would disagree), and 3:16 solidly in the RPG category. I quite enjoyed the 3:16 thread. We had a discussion, ran out of things to say and the thread ended.

Quote from: RPGPundit;555719"A roleplaying game is a game where you take on the persona of a detailed imaginary character meant to have a life of his/her own, in an emulated world intended to have a life of its own"

This is a good definition. I like it. It's clear. I'd happily go with it. It depends on having a good table (And GM in particular), but I'd rather assume every gamer is there to have a good game than otherwise.

And just so nobody is in any doubt, I also don't see why Ron Edward and his toxic rhetoric should still be allowed to dominate gaming discussion. Some of the points he touched on were good ones - GNS theory, discussion of player styles and game expectations, for example - are good additions to understanding of why some tables work and some don't; they won't solve your problem themselves, but they might help you in solving them, even if they just mean talking to the players about the game. The better recent writers have either absorbed the concepts into their game design toolbox - Stolze, Wick - or understood them and worked with them anyway, without needing to explicitly state them - Stafford, Laws (To give just two examples from my shelf). Edwards and his one-true-wayism may not have done the most damage to critical thinking about RPG's, maybe there was someone worse, but he's certainly up there.

And now I shall get back to writing up my SWN sector.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;556352So this is really a website where anyone that you don't like gets insulted and their opinions traduced.

You're new here, aren't you?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;556354I'm getting a little tired of the abuse.

Are these your toys, sir? They appear to have fallen out of your pram at speed.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;556352So this is really a website where anyone that you don't like gets insulted and their opinions traduced. I know another place like that...

I neither insulted you, nor your opinions. I merely pointed out where your opinion falls down.

Accept it. Pundit isn't going to change things because you want him to. Sure, raise a holler like you are now - knock yourself out, but that doesn't change that simple fact.

Quote from: Ladybird;556364Are these your toys, sir? They appear to have fallen out of your pram at speed.

I'm asking you to knock the abuse off, it isn't required, and it isn't welcome. Spare me the holier than thou attitude. This crap is pulled everytime someone makes a comment that you people don't like: you can't address it, you can't respond appropriately. You cry foul and throw abuse. Asking for a definition of terms in respect of what constitutes an rpg is perfectly reasonable, and not once has one been provided. Why isn't there a sticky on the rpg forum, for instance, and don't give me this 'it's pundit's site, he can do what he likes' because that isn't an answer, it's an excuse. I am not asking people to like play or even discuss 'story' games, I am asking people to respect those that do. I am telling you that shuffling threads around and provoking this silly 'pundit vs swine' paranoia is a complete waste of everyone's time, not least of all your/his own. What does it achieve? Has the rpg community taken any notice of this bizarre crusade? Do people stop playing these games? All you are doing is hurting this website by making it look petulant and childish. If you want people to see it as one man's personal playground then expect to see very few visitors as a result of this banner ad, which is a waste of time and money.
Discussion of story games is important not for the simple minded reasons thrown in my face, but because any attempt at innovation in our hobby, successful or otherwise, is a good thing. Anyone that wants to try a new idea or a new approach should be able to discuss it. The minute you shuffle everything to a lower traffic explicitly non-rpg forum you traduce it, you send out a message that it's not worthy of discussion. That is stupid, limiting and self defeating, and anyone that advocates those as qualities representative of my hobby isn't someone I would ever welcome at my table.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;556373I'm asking you to knock the abuse off, it isn't required, and it isn't welcome. Spare me the holier than thou attitude.

This from the dude who calls everyone a twat.