Quote from: Sinister Brain;552083Thank you kindly OHT.  
Good thread for a first time post eh?

Just perfect.

Love your screen name welcome sir!

Quote from: daniel_ream;552075...boilerplate from the Overprivileged Angry Middle-Class White University Women's Centre brigade...

If you haven't had the misfortune to be part of a liberal arts university community lately, I can assure you: this kind of random public shaming is par for the course.  It happens because it works: people like MalaDicta know that their targets will do just about anything rather than be seen as the mudslingers and extortionists want to paint them.

Absolutely, some of the most irrational people I encountered in my college years were middle class white overeducated females who only had a single mode of thought - resentment - and infected every discussion with their foolish cant. Why pseudo-intellectual courses are taught in first rank unis is beyond me.

If you are male get yourself a science/maths education.

Quote from: Aos;552106I'd comment but I'm a Nazi now, apparently.

Heh, This isn't rpg.net, you won't be banned for telling traveller to go eat a bag of dicks. He may call you a fuckwad or whatever, but you won't get banned.

To reiterate more, I see it as opportunistic bs on the part of maladicta following a media groundswell. If you want to see some all-day everday activitism and though on tabletop RPG culture from a female's perspective, read  http://gamingaswomen.com/ .  The writer's there talk about this stuff everday, not just when they think they can score some points.

Quote from: RobMuadib;552119Heh, This isn't rpg.net, you won't be banned for telling traveller to go eat a bag of dicks. He may call you a fuckwad or whatever, but you won't get banned.

To reiterate more, I see it as opportunistic bs on the part of maladicta following a media groundswell. If you want to see some all-day everday activitism and though on tabletop RPG culture from a female's perspective, read  http://gamingaswomen.com/ .  The writer's there talk about this stuff everday, not just when they think they can score some points.

Oh, I think Traveller is decent enough fellow; he just got carried away. I am honestly too squeamish to click your link. I respect your rejection of the messenger. However, in this case I'm more concerned with the message, but that may be due to the fact that I'm forcing myself to think about it for the first time.  I think I am just riled by the fact that alleged rape threats were brushed away as the mere product of mischievous trolls.
As always, of course, I reserve the right to be wrong about fucking everything.

As far as getting banned from here goes, I can't seem to swing it.

After reading some of this and looking between the lines I believe both Aos and Traveller have the right of the whole mess. That woman has an agenda that much is obvious but threatening rape real or implied is flat out sick.

Quote from: Aos;552122I think I am just riled by the fact that alleged rape threats were brushed away as the mere product of mischievous trolls.

The thing is, they almost certainly are  nothing more than that.  I -and MalaDicta - live in a jurisdiction where "uttering threats" is an indictable offense[1], but part of that requires that the threats be immediate and credible.

As a counter-example, if a teenager posts on his Facebook page "Moms betta get me an iPhone for XMas or imma cut a bitch"[2] absolutely no one is going to promptly report the kid to the police for threatening assault with a deadly weapon.

It's crass.  It's offensive.  It's beyond the pale of any kind of civilized discourse.  But it's not a credible threat of violence, and neither is a bunch of random Internet dorks clearly trying to rile up MalaDicta.  There just isn't any good reason to believe that any of those threats represent any more danger than, say, Deadalus threatening to ruin Pundit's shit.

And as I've already said: I've only seen the initial couple of posts - enough to spot the telltale markers of organized ARA extortion - but what evidence do we have that MalaDicta has in fact received any threats at all?  Are we relying only on her word?  We already know she's willing to lie and distort the truth to further her agenda.



[1] Sort of but not quite the equivalent of a felony in most US states.
[2] Yes, this happens.  You may weep openly.

Quote from: daniel_ream;552075As far as I'm concerned MalaDicta has zero credibility on this issue.

Everything she's written is long-since debunked boilerplate from the Overprivileged Angry Middle-Class White University Women's Centre brigade.  None of it, none of it should be given an ounce of consideration, including the claims of rape threats.

If you haven't had the misfortune to be part of a liberal arts university community lately, I can assure you: this kind of random public shaming is par for the course.  It happens because it works: people like MalaDicta know that their targets will do just about anything rather than be seen as the mudslingers and extortionists want to paint them.

The only thing that works for people caught in this kind of foolishness is aggressive defense: do not back down, acknowledge the truths, and expose the lies being told about them.  Publicize the witch-hunter's slanderous statements and attempts to extort.  Stand up for their right to do business how and with whom they choose, and on what terms.

People who aren't Matt Sprange or James DesBrough sending threats to MalaDicta is a sideshow. It's a distraction.  It's got nothing to do with either Matt or James and they have no responsibility whatsoever to disavow them - assuming said threats even occurred.

This is the main thing I am getting from this clusterfuck as well. MalaDicta (WTF is her real name since this is public?)  is acting like Pat Pulling here in order to destroy an author and damage game publishers.

James Desborough wrote some tasteless stuff (Nymphology is a tackier Book of Erotic Fantasy), but if you do not like the guy's writing then vote with your wallet and do not buy his written works. To go out of your way to lie and publicly slander and libel a man, then start a harrassment petition to prevent him from making a living as a writer is begging for a lawsuit.

Rape and rape threats are bad, but they are indeed a product of internet trolling culture. However, a simple "Knock off the rape threats" from Desborough would go a long way to bettering the situation, especially if this mess ends up in court.

Is Maladicta allowed her Free Speech to say what she pleases? Yes, and she can face the consequences for it as well. This has gone beyond Free Speech and entered harrassment territory, which is where Maladicta went wrong.

I can't imagine that I have anything else to say on the topic except that I don't have anything else to say on the topic.
I think it would be cool, though, if someone else called me a Nazi.

Quote from: daniel_ream;552143The thing is, they almost certainly are  nothing more than that.  I -and MalaDicta - live in a jurisdiction where "uttering threats" is an indictable offense[1], but part of that requires that the threats be immediate and credible.

Daniel, I live just about a two hour drive away from you, and I have to disagree - if only for the fact that regardless of this woman's credibility, receiving what can even be even misconstrued as rape threats in your inbox is extremely upsetting and unacceptable. To say it's harmless is a dangerous and harmful perspective.

We can't know the depth of any legal claim without transcripts, and that's none of our business.

Quote from: jeff37923;552145Rape and rape threats are bad, but they are indeed a product of internet trolling culture.

And this perspective is even worse. Saying "trolls will be trolls" is tantamount to endorsing mild rape threats across the internet.

I don't think this is the kind of culture any of us wants to foster. Victim blaming is the last thing roleplaying game communities should be associated with. I can't help but agree with numerous posts that everyone acted in poor form, but there is a certain point where a line must be drawn in a sand.

No rape threat is harmless. It doesn't matter if it isn't acted upon, or if the threat is not credible. It was meant to frighten and hurt and it sounds like it did just that. That's harm.

Quote from: Aos;552149I can't imagine that I have anything else to say on the topic except that I don't have anything else to say on the topic.
I think it would be cool, though, if someone else called me a Nazi.

Just to make you feel better - Aos, you're a nazi.

Really I just threw that last one in to lighten the mood. (As much as nazi's lighten the mood). Even so, roleplaying gamers on the Internet are snarky, sarcastic, bitter, dissatisfied and whiny people on the whole - and there are some bad qualities, too. Let's not add cavalier about rape to the list.

//Panjumanju

What does "not on" mean? It was used in one of Grim's tweets, in a way with which I'm not familiar.

Quote from: Panjumanju;552155And this perspective is even worse. Saying "trolls will be trolls" is tantamount to endorsing mild rape threats across the internet.

I don't think this is the kind of culture any of us wants to foster. Victim blaming is the last thing roleplaying game communities should be associated with. I can't help but agree with numerous posts that everyone acted in poor form, but there is a certain point where a line must be drawn in a sand.

No rape threat is harmless. It doesn't matter if it isn't acted upon, or if the threat is not credible. It was meant to frighten and hurt and it sounds like it did just that. That's harm.

Maybe it is worse, but we have yet to see if these rape threats are real or something else that Maladicta lied about. I do not see her as a victim in this entire mess. I see her as more of an instigator of it.

And no, I do not condone the rape threats, thanks for asking.

Quote from: jeff37923;552166And no, I do not condone the rape threats, thanks for asking.

Next Week: RPG.net bans 50 posters and The RPGSite bitches for over 10 pages when someone points out "genocide is bad".

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;552170Next Week: RPG.net bans 50 posters and The RPGSite bitches for over 10 pages when someone points out "genocide is bad".

JG

That is debateable. Are we talking Kender or Gungans here?

Quote from: jeff37923;552172That is debateable. Are we talking Kender or Gungans here?

Kenguans.

MEESA HAFTA PICKPOCKET.

The only time you'd find me praying for a mind-flayer invasion.

Quote from: Ladybird;552030It's that last sentence. Threatening a stranger with violence is... threatening a stranger with violence. There's no such thing as a "not genuine" threat in that situation.

(Contrast to threatening a friend with violence, which is entirely different.)

The tweet isn't saying that it's okay, but it's not saying "stop this, right now, seriously". It's putting the blame on MalaDicta for being unhappy about receiving rape threats.

That it's somehow seen as acceptable to email rape threats to women who slight gamers on the internet... well, that's a problem, but it's beyond the scope of this board.

This.

Saying things like "they're not genuine threats" or "they're just trolling" is an attempt to excuse behavior which is completely inexcusable. (Particularly since they're statements that Desborough is just making up out of whole-cloth. Unless, of course, Desborough is actually responsible for those threats being e-mailed. So either he's posting offensive bullshit or he's confessing to being a scumbag. I'm assuming the former, but neither option paints him in a great light.)

Furthermore, implying that there is somebody for whom receiving anonymous rape threats ISN'T a button is mindless idiocy of the worst sort. And phrasing it in such a way as to claim that she was somehow "asking for it" because she "handily flagged her buttons" is the point where he really crosses over into being a complete scumbag.

Quote from: One Horse Town;552065Where were the arseholes making a rumpus about this when stuff like Poison'd and Maid (which is another kettle of fucked-up shit. Murder condoms, anyone?) turned up?

I seem to recall RPGNet having plenty of threads filled with plenty of people denouncing both of those games for exactly those reasons.

Quote from: The Traveller;552073I take everything on a case by case basis. I do not feel there is ample evidence to justify the level of hate this man is receiving, although I am open to new evidence of course.

Sure. The same is also true for Maladicta.

Both of them are idiots. Both of them have said stupid things. Maladicta crossed over into being a scumbag when she lied (repeatedly) in her efforts to paint people as supporters of actual rape. Desborough crossed over into scumbaggery when he claimed that she was "asking for it" by telling people that threatening her with rape was a "button".

Both of them have muddied themselves up well and good. But both of them are also getting targeted with a lot more hate than the stupidity of their actions could even remotely begin to justify.