"Mother-May-I"

jeff37923 · June 01, 2012, 01:44:57 PM

Every time I see the "mother-may-I" term used, I think that it is the newest trend in strawman arguements.

Am I right? I could be wrong, but it looks like the latest version of "we must disempower the evil DM because the DM could stop my fun". Is this really a problem in gaming?

beejazz · June 01, 2012, 01:50:34 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;544509Is this really a problem in gaming?

Nope

Sacrosanct · June 01, 2012, 01:50:48 PM

I think it's a tactic used by people who can't legitimately refute your argument, so they make up a hyperbolic (and false) attack on a particular edition so you focus on that and not on the weak argument actually presented by them.

It reminds of the people who insist on calling pro-choice people "anti-life" in that it serves no other purpose but to falsely characterize someone else's position as one that no reasonable person would ever hold.

Drohem · June 01, 2012, 01:51:55 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;544509Every time I see the "mother-may-I" term used, I think that it is the newest trend in strawman arguements.

Am I right? I could be wrong, but it looks like the latest version of "we must disempower the evil DM because the DM could stop my fun". Is this really a problem in gaming?

No, you're right- it's a bunch of bullshit.

Bedrockbrendan · June 01, 2012, 01:52:05 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;544509Every time I see the "mother-may-I" term used, I think that it is the newest trend in strawman arguements.

Am I right? I could be wrong, but it looks like the latest version of "we must disempower the evil DM because the DM could stop my fun". Is this really a problem in gaming?

It is not an argument. It is a loaded word meant to belittle a style of play (something not unique to either side in these debates). We do it all the time too (we think we are right but we do engage in it). That is why it is generally better to avoid such language so we can debate the actual concepts rather than butt heads over ego.

Shawn Driscoll · June 01, 2012, 01:53:04 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;544509Every time I see the "mother-may-I" term used, I think that it is the newest trend in strawman arguements.

Am I right? I could be wrong

You are right. Some of the younger players have no idea about older games and so have no other way to "debate" the differences.

thedungeondelver · June 01, 2012, 01:58:36 PM

Everything everyone else has said. I feel there's some "nyah back at you!" in it pertaining to comments that 4e (and 3.5e, and 3e) had a "video game" feel.

Just another new type of bullet in Edition Wars.

Benoist · June 01, 2012, 01:58:51 PM

"Mother-may-I" = what normal people understand as "talking to each other."

thedungeondelver · June 01, 2012, 01:59:11 PM

Quote from: Benoist;544526"Mother-may-I" = what normal people understand as "talking to each other."

Ha! Yes, that too.

Mistwell · June 01, 2012, 02:00:48 PM

It's a problem when you have a bad DM. It's a problem when you walk into a game store and sit down with a random DM who doesn't know you won't abuse things like other random players he's met over the years, and similarly with convention games.

But it's not a problem when you have a good DM that you know. And I think, or should I say I hope, that the vast majority of games meet that definition, to varying degrees. With a good DM that you know, it will never be an issue.

Soylent Green · June 01, 2012, 02:10:28 PM

It's about as annoying as the "show my on the doll where the evil GM touched you" thing.

Bedrockbrendan · June 01, 2012, 02:13:01 PM

Quote from: Mistwell;544529It's a problem when you have a bad DM. It's a problem when you walk into a game store and sit down with a random DM who doesn't know you won't abuse things like other random players he's met over the years, and similarly with convention games.

But it's not a problem when you have a good DM that you know. And I think, or should I say I hope, that the vast majority of games meet that definition, to varying degrees. With a good DM that you know, it will never be an issue.

This may explain some of the division. I have pretty much always run games with people I know, and only rarely played with strangers at a gaming atore (though in those cases i have to say they were all great experiences). At conventions I have always run stuff myself, and not been a player.

DestroyYouAlot · June 01, 2012, 02:33:08 PM

It's a completely false dichotomy - the idea that, unless you have a hard and fast rule defining a thing, that a competent and reasonable DM can't make a ruling without it being a "gimme". Usually with the implication that the players are buying the DM pizza, for whatever reason.

Note that "magic item wish lists" are for some reason exempt from this complaint. :idunno:

DestroyYouAlot · June 01, 2012, 02:34:20 PM

Quote from: Soylent Green;544535It's about as annoying as the "show my on the doll where the evil GM touched you" thing.

It IS that thing. Saying "mother-may-I" is an admission of past DM abuse (or, more likely, fantasies involving same).

Benoist · June 01, 2012, 02:41:17 PM

Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;544553It IS that thing. Saying "mother-may-I" is an admission of past DM abuse (or, more likely, fantasies involving same).

I agree. Either you have been touched in the wrong places by some DM some time, or you coopted the ideas of those who have been and don't know any better (referring to people who started gaming with 4e for instance who really have no clue what they're talking about). At least from experience.