With the Hacklopedia of Beasts and the HackMaster PHB Kenzer&Co is doing something that I haven't seen a major game company do before. When the book is in the Beta stage they release it to be purchased and when you buy it, they encourage these "Beta Testers" to comment on each release of the book. They solicit feedback from the community. Now, there are some basic concepts and rules that they hold fast to and never change, but there have been times when they have incorporated gamers' suggestions into the rules. They are especially good at attempting to find areas of the rules that don't seem to be clear and need clarification. Dave Kenzer has made the statement that he would like to see the PHB be the best edited and most error/typo free game book ever written and considering that there are several of us providing feedback it is looking pretty good. They plan on doing the same thing with the GMG.

Now Jolly has announced that they are going to do a Community driven Index for the PHB. In other words, they'll take input from the gaming community on what needs to be in the Index.

I know that many independents have done similar projects where they solicit help from the community but does anyone know of another company that has done the same thing? I think that it is a very cool concept and would like to see this method of game design grow...

So you pay to be a beta-tester?

You are getting a Physical Book(when it is printed) and you get the PDF for Free. They charge $40 for the PDF later.

And to be clear, they do have a group of Alpha testers and go through the normal process of testing among a closed group of people who are under a standard NDA before it gets to the Beta stage...

So you pay to be a beta-tester.

Jokes aside, it's a neat idea, but hardly revolutionary, at least outside RPG industry. Of course, the problem is - that you need the preoders and high development time (both of which RPGs usually lack) for it to work.

Yea, I know it is common outside of the RPG industry, I am in IT. I just think it is fairly new to RPGs.

And No, you aren't paying to be a Beta Tester, you are buying a bundle, Physical Book and PDF for the price of the Book. The Beta Testing thing is just something that they decided to do and the scope of what they are doing with it is growing.

As for the time it takes, the PHB went on sale last summer, so it's been available for comment for about 8 months now or so.

Well I have to say -- the community effort to index the 400 page HMPHB went amazing well. Roughly 48 hours with perhaps 7 to 8 people participating on the online data entry. Someone would call dibs on a chapter, index it and then claim another one.

Wife and I spent about five hours going over the compiled data today, scrubbing, merging duplicated entries and organizing things.

This in going to be one mean index. I think we'll probably use this approach on future efforts where large tomes are involved.

Not a single hitch. Everyone who volunteered came through.

Quote from: greylond;518487With the Hacklopedia of Beasts and the HackMaster PHB Kenzer&Co is doing something that I haven't seen a major game company do before. When the book is in the Beta stage they release it to be purchased and when you buy it, they encourage these "Beta Testers" to comment on each release of the book. They solicit feedback from the community. Now, there are some basic concepts and rules that they hold fast to and never change, but there have been times when they have incorporated gamers' suggestions into the rules. They are especially good at attempting to find areas of the rules that don't seem to be clear and need clarification. Dave Kenzer has made the statement that he would like to see the PHB be the best edited and most error/typo free game book ever written and considering that there are several of us providing feedback it is looking pretty good. They plan on doing the same thing with the GMG.

Now Jolly has announced that they are going to do a Community driven Index for the PHB. In other words, they'll take input from the gaming community on what needs to be in the Index.

I know that many independents have done similar projects where they solicit help from the community but does anyone know of another company that has done the same thing? I think that it is a very cool concept and would like to see this method of game design grow...

Green Ronin is doing/has done free betas of the Dragon Age sets (set three is in open beta right now)...and didn't Pathfinder essentially do this? (with the caveat that they apparently ignored much of the feedback).

The only one of these I'm really familiar with is the Dragon Age one, as I've recently become very interested in the RPG and downloaded the Beta, so there may be bigger differences in the execution than I'm seeing (other than the Dragon Age beta being free).

It's an amazing thing to see like-minded individuals with a passion for a game coming together and working together.  Nice to see the process flourishing in our hobby/industry. One of the things I've always loved about gaming is that sort of barn raising mentality.

Quote from: JollyRB;521153It's an amazing thing to see like-minded individuals with a passion for a game coming together and working together.  Nice to see the process flourishing in our hobby/industry. One of the things I've always loved about gaming is that sort of barn raising mentality.

Very much agreed. I'm glad it has worked out so well for you all (and seemingly well enough for Green Ronin that they attempted it a second time).

I have to say I personally like WoTC's current design strategy, because in their plan it involves them paying me.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;521255I have to say I personally like WoTC's current design strategy, because in their plan it involves them paying me.

RPGPundit

Well, it's better than paying me.  Seriously I do hope they're actually going to listen to whatever input you give.

Quote from: JollyRB;521149Well I have to say -- the community effort to index the 400 page HMPHB went amazing well. Roughly 48 hours with perhaps 7 to 8 people participating on the online data entry. Someone would call dibs on a chapter, index it and then claim another one.

Yea, you guys would have to do that on the same weekend as my wife's birthday...