Quote from: Benoist;520576No, it's no intrinsically wrong to do some work for money. Who said that?

It's the fact that you'd do ANY work for money that would make you a sellsword.

"Selling out" is the compromising of integrity, morality, or principles in exchange for money or "success" (however defined).

When you say "I'd write whatever, as long as you give me 6 cents a word," you technically are putting the paycheck before any considerations based on principle, integrity, what-have-you. As I said: if you don't have an ethical problem with that, then all's fine, as far as you're concerned.

Just wanted to point out that a mercenary or a sellsword is not the same as a sellout without getting into the rest of the argument.  This started as a discussion of selling out and then became about what is a mercenary.  (Never mind that while I wrote this there have been a couple of posts exchanged lighting a fire that I probably don't want to be involved in...)

I actually think the definition of a sellout in the quote above is fine.  One does not meet that definition by being willing to write or do X for money.  To be a sellout one must be shown to have compromised some principle.

So, for example, Lets assume that a person, RPGWriter, is on record as a proponent of rules light games, gets noticed writing such games, and then gets hired by a big game company to write their rules heavy game.  Assuming that RPGWriter was such a proponent of rules light games that he believed, on principle, that rules heavy games are "bad".... RPGWriter could be labeled a sellout by her rules light loving fans.

(I decided to post what I had written anyway, and well... que sera, sera...)

Quote from: Ram;520593I actually think the definition of a sellout in the quote above is fine.  One does not meet that definition by being willing to write or do X for money.  To be a sellout one must be shown to have compromised some principle.

Ahhh that's a very good point! Very true! Did Graeme compromise some principle in order to take the paycheck from FFG? Only Graeme can answer that.

Quote from: Benoist;520592Because you're upset at what I just said and want to find a way to make me shut up, that's why.

Go back and read this thread; you've posted a pissy, ad-hominen retort to every post I made from the outset. What's your problem?

Honestly. I haven't posted here in months. Did I do something to annoy you some time in the past?

Quote from: Haffrung;520596Go back and read this thread; you've posted a pissy, ad-hominen retort to every post I made from the outset. What's your problem?

No problem on this side of the screen, mate.

Quote from: Haffrung;520596Honestly. I haven't posted here in months. Did I do something to annoy you some time in the past?

Not that I can recall, honestly.

Quote from: Benoist;520576When you say "I'd write whatever, as long as you give me 6 cents a word," you technically are putting the paycheck before any considerations based on principle, integrity, what-have-you. As I said: if you don't have an ethical problem with that, then all's fine, as far as you're concerned.

Market forces, my friend. At 6 cents/word, freelancers can rake in a tidy annual sum of $35-40K if they work consistently. Now that's a paycheque worth compromising one's principles for!

Quote from: Benoist;520576When you say "I'd write whatever, as long as you give me 6 cents a word," you technically are putting the paycheck before any considerations based on principle, integrity, what-have-you. As I said: if you don't have an ethical problem with that, then all's fine, as far as you're concerned.

because, of course, when he wrote/said that, he was ready to take a writing job for the aryan nation, etc. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Benoist;520594Ahhh that's a very good point! Very true! Did Graeme compromise some principle in order to take the paycheck from FFG? Only Graeme can answer that.

nice welcoming atmosphere you're making, dude.  lighten up

I think there's a negative connotation to words like "mercenary" or "sellsword" that's being objected to. They're not as insulting as saying "sellout" and the implication that carries of compromising principles. But they do suggest the that (maybe? perhaps? possibly?) the "mercenary" individual may not have principles to compromise in the first place. Literally, mercenaries do harm for pay, with no real loyalty to anyone except the highest bidder. It's a pretty objectionable way to make a living and that sense is carried over when it's applied metaphorically.  At the same time the words have enough ambiguity to allow the speaker to weasel out of those connotations if they are pointed out. You might get a similar reaction if you called someone an opportunist. Calling someone a professional doesn't carry any of those problems.

Quote from: Benoist;520598No problem on this side of the screen, mate.



Not that I can recall, honestly.

Doesn't this sort of passive-aggressive bullshit belong on RPG.Net?

Quote from: Herr Arnulfe;520600Market forces, my friend. At 6 cents/word, freelancers can rake in a tidy annual sum of $35-40K if they work consistently. Now that's a paycheque worth compromising one's principles for!

Is it?

Quote from: beeber;520602because, of course, when he wrote/said that, he was ready to take a writing job for the aryan nation, etc. :rolleyes:



nice welcoming atmosphere you're making, dude.  lighten up

Well... I'm not the one making a Godwin here. I think you guys should lighten up a little bit.

This thread is really going places.

Quote from: Haffrung;520605Doesn't this sort of passive-aggressive bullshit belong on RPG.Net?

Actually, if it was passive-aggressive, sure. It would belong in RPGnet. Since what I posted there is 100% true, and really isn't hypocritical one way or the other, you can come to your own conclusion.

Quote from: two_fishes;520603I think there's a negative connotation to words like "mercenary" or "sellsword" that's being objected to. They're not as insulting as saying "sellout" and the implication that carries of compromising principles. But they do suggest the that (maybe? perhaps? possibly?) the "mercenary" individual may not have principles to compromise in the first place.

Yeah, that's actually the distinction between a mercenary or sellsword and a full-on sell-out. The mercenary doesn't have any particular principle to compromise when doing the job, as long as he gets the paycheck by the end of it, whereas the sell-out had some kind of principle he just neglected in favor of taking the paycheck.

Quote from: Benoist;520606Is it?

Possibly, depending on the local economy, alternative job qualifications, and one's degree of conviction in said principles.

I mean, I earn more in my day job without compromising any principles, but for some people "pursuing the dream" might be worth a paycut to work on games they don't actually play. Or maybe they have no other options besides McDonalds, or maybe their convictions on said topic are only mild i.e. not worth turning down a job over.

I just wanted to say thanks to Graeme for posting in this thread. I am a big fan of your work which has produce many hours of fun that has been integral in making WFRP one of my favourite RPGs of all time.