Quote from: BedrockBrendan;517315I blame Anne Rice.

Could be!  I barely made it through Interview with a Vampire.  When I took over teaching the Gothic course here, the first thing I did was to strike Anne Rice from the reading list.  

(Notice that she didn't make my Appendix either, heh.)

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;517315I blame Anne Rice.

You beat me to it, although my understanding is that Rice only wrote one or two of the novels that bear her byline.

Quote from: misterguignol;517316Could be!  I barely made it through Interview with a Vampire.  When I took over teaching the Gothic course here, the first thing I did was to strike Anne Rice from the reading list.  

(Notice that she didn't make my Appendix either, heh.)

I know the book was written in the late 70s but it felt like in the 90s her stuff and an overabundance of symoathetic villains came together in a lot of gaming stuff. Its unfortunate because in small doses thisis fine (the section in frankenstein where the monster gives his point of view is awesome) but done too much it gets really emo or just becomes becomes an excuse for evil behavior (he isn't evil, just misunderstood....even though he just murdered your whole family).

Quote from: Aos;517317You beat me to it, although my understanding is that Rice only wrote one or two of the novels that bear her byline.

I wouldn't know. Havent heard she didn't write her own books but not a big fan. I read most of Interview but lost interest the last hundred pages or so (which is ashame because early on the book held my interest). Couldn't get past the first hundred pages of vampire lestat. Then only book of hers I finished cover to cover is The Mummy (which didn't bother me as much as the vampire books).

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;517315I blame Anne Rice.

Unwittingly yes, but I'm pretty sure Pundit was thinking of Twilight when he wrote that.

Quote from: Benoist;517324Unwittingly yes, but I'm pretty sure Pundit was thinking of Twilight when he wrote that.

Which would be weird because Twilight isn't Gothic.

Quote from: misterguignol;517325Which would be weird because Twilight isn't Gothic.

In the minds of soccer moms it seems to be.

Quote from: misterguignol;516339I'm begun assembling what I already have ready-to-go for my Gothic Fantasy supplement for LotFP, but I wanted to ask what folks actually would want to find in such a product.  What would you find useful?

Honestly? Something that would help me create the kind of dark and forboding atmosphere that The Name of the Rose had without invoking any of the cliched in-game genre standards (i.e. Cthulhu, undead) but still allowing me to include them if I feel like it.

Quote from: Benoist;517327In the minds of soccer moms it seems to be.

I don't think they consider it Gothic if they think of such things at all. Whatever, soccer moms get a bad rap, they have just as much right to their silly interests as we do.

I much prefer horror games to focus on ordinary people rather than heroes.

I find it much better defines the games for me. If the PCs are all heroic investigators then the distinction between dark fantasy (as Pundit terms it) and Horror becomes too blurred.

I played me a lot of CoC our PCs are always ordinary. We have had a few, a pair of detectives, a forensic pathologist, an Occult historian, a reporter who were natuarally inquisitive but mostly we play ordinary people who find themselves in horrific situations. It seems to resonate more and fits the genre from slasher flick to The Mountains of Madness.

My ideal set up for a Horror game would run like. Make up an ordianry guy in a modern/1920s/victorian setting. Plumbers, teachers, whatever... then have them all travelling to work or on business on the 7:34 to Paddington when .....

So Alien is Horror but Aliens is Dark Fantasy ....

Quote from: jibbajibba;517330I much prefer horror games to focus on ordinary people rather than heroes.

I find it much better defines the games for me. If the PCs are all heroic investigators then the distinction between dark fantasy (as Pundit terms it) and Horror becomes too blurred.

I played me a lot of CoC our PCs are always ordinary. We have had a few, a pair of detectives, a forensic pathologist, an Occult historian, a reporter who were natuarally inquisitive but mostly we play ordinary people who find themselves in horrific situations. It seems to resonate more and fits the genre from slasher flick to The Mountains of Madness.

My ideal set up for a Horror game would run like. Make up an ordianry guy in a modern/1920s/victorian setting. Plumbers, teachers, whatever... then have them all travelling to work or on business on the 7:34 to Paddington when .....

So Alien is Horror but Aliens is Dark Fantasy ....

That is what I generally like to call "Hitchcock's Approach To RPGs", in honour of such movies as 39 Steps and The Man Who Knew Too Much, and what is my favourite approach when I play WFRP and Cthulhu. Ordinary people, who got tangled into a mess beyond their understand/abilities, forced to the wall and fighting for survival.

In WFRP, they either die, fall to Chaos, or become heroes in the progress. In CoC, well - if they are lucky, they bought humanity another few years, and they aren't insane.

But lucky they are rarely.

This is why I am in favour of MG's Dark Secrets table and the "What did you do as X" at the Professions table - because I'd see is as the Thing, that caused the character from a Gothic game to become an adventurer. Something that shook them so much to the core, that returning to their prior lives was just...off the limits.

Alternatively, MG - you might want to give "Drive" table, in spirit of Trail of Cthulhu. Now - I am not talking about ToC's Drives as they are used for "whipping" players into getting back to the plot (which is silly - the other side of the medallion, rewarding them with Stability if they give into their Drive, is something that ain't too bad though), but I am talking as an idea that a hero from Gothic fiction has that "something", that drives him into adventuring and uncovering terrible secrets, that are perhaps best left untouched.

This might be just better served by existing Dark Secrets though. The way I'd see it - you can decide that your character has a DS, or not. If he has not - the DS will be his first encounter with horror. Something that'll haunt him, forcing to adventure further. In Stroker's Dracula, the characters'd continue to be the vampire hunters, as the terrible fate of his betrothed'd drive him to vengeance.

Take note - such understanding of Dark Secret also prevents taking it as the "Oh, I had seen my wife die, so I will drink myself to death" approach to this subject. Of course, a person with such DS might be a heavy drinker, but you get what I mean, MG - that Dark Secrets are treated as motivation for the character, rather then as an excuse for such a character to become a miser emoboy of the party.

Quote from: Rincewind1;517357Alternatively, MG - you might want to give "Drive" table, in spirit of Trail of Cthulhu. Now - I am not talking about ToC's Drives as they are used for "whipping" players into getting back to the plot (which is silly - the other side of the medallion, rewarding them with Stability if they give into their Drive, is something that ain't too bad though), but I am talking as an idea that a hero from Gothic fiction has that "something", that drives him into adventuring and uncovering terrible secrets, that are perhaps best left untouched.

Could you speak more to what a Drive Table would be?  I've never seen Trails of Cthulhu.

Sure. Here's an example Drive from ToC (I think posting one small paragraph from 250 pages large PDF is okay. Also - give ToC a try if you like CoC, if only for bonus material and some thoughts on scenario creation, if you dislike GUMSHOE mechanic):

Revenge
"Ezra Weeden, though his periods of
espionage were necessarily brief ...
had a vindictive persistence which the
bulk of the practical townsfolk and
farmers lacked..."
— The Case of Charles Dexter Ward

Something out there hurt you,
or hurt someone you care about.
Therefore, it must be destroyed,
burned out, taken down, exposed
... whatever it takes, and
whatever it costs. Any trail that
might lead to your vengeance is
a trail you have to follow to the
bitter end.
Especially appropriate for:
Criminal, Private Investigator

Examples: Ezra Weeden in
Charles Dexter Ward, and the
narrator of The Lurking Fear
after the death of his friend
Munroe. Followers like Dr Willett
(in Charles Dexter Ward) may
change their Drive to Revenge if
their associates are killed, sucked
through a portal, or otherwise
removed from play.


Basically - the motivation(also a good name) of an "ordinary guy" character, for setting off to risk his life in a dangerous world, fighting terrible monsters. For Gothic Fiction, Revenge'd be perfect -as well as such motivations as Ennui (I hunt vampires because it's the only thing that gives me a rush anymore - great for a former soldier), Curiosity (I do wonder how all this is possible), Scholarship (I wish to learn as much as I can - perfect motivation for a Magic User), etc. etc. Of course, those are mostly stolen from ToC, so you'd need to come up with some of your own, more fit to Gothic Fiction then to Cthulhu - for example, Zeal (I will lead the light of true faith against the darkness)

Quote from: misterguignol;517304God forbid people have different play styles than you!  

To make this nice and clear though: what I am making is a toolkit; people can dial in the style and type of Gothicism they want with it, from light touches of Gothic atmosphere to Hammer Horror to full on Romantic dramatics.  

How other people make use of it is no business of mine.

These distinctions are also quite silly; while you fear that the Gothic is pretentious, it seems you haven't read much of it--The Castle of Otranto, the first Gothic novel by most estimates, has more sword-fighting than any Hammer Horror film, for example.

And Lovecraft's stories have way more solving the problem with guns/fighting than people generally believe, but that doesn't stop the CoC swine from insisting that putting a single point in "pistols" is somehow a cardinal sin against the game "genre".

But if you present your sourcebook in toolkit format leaving it up to the GM to set the kind of campaign he wants, I have no quarrel with you.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Benoist;517324Unwittingly yes, but I'm pretty sure Pundit was thinking of Twilight when he wrote that.

No, I was thinking of Wuthering Heights, and of the general stereotypes some people have of the gothic horror genre; and the general way pretentious Swine want to alter every genre to fit their absurd notions.

RPGPundit