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Drums of War

Started by B.T., February 16, 2012, 01:52:50 AM

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B.T.

Link to the wiki and download files.

I'm going to go through the rules stream-of-consciousness.

First up: character creation.  I like the stat rolling method, though I'm surprised that the base range is 2-12 instead of 3-18.  Any particular reason for this?  (Just curious, not saying it's bad.)  Calculating stat bonuses as (stat - 6)/2 is a better way of dealing with modifiers, too, as it limits the spread -2 to +3 range for starting characters.

With regard to method #3 in chargen:
QuoteMethod 3: This is a completely non-random method, giving maximum control to the player. Take 40 points, and divide them as desired between the 5 attributes.
I would advise putting a cap on this, making the maximum stat of 12 to start.  Given the starting ability score boosts, this could very well get excessive.  A new character can start with a 16 in a stat and then get a +4 racial bonus to it, giving him a +7 bonus to begin.  Seems a bit high to me.

Now, moving on to the races.  First, to racial bonuses.  Giving any one race a +4 bonus to a single stat seems a poor choice to me just for math reasons.  I'd limit it to +2, myself.

Next: the races themselves.  Do humans really need +4 Spirit?  Or could they get +2 Spirit, +2 to another stat?  Or just +2 to a single stat since they have no penalties?  Also, their racial ability is lame.

Dwarves: looks good, but stoneform should last more than four combat rounds.  That seems kind of lame.  I'd make it an encounter-long ability since it's only 1/session.  Or you could make it 1/encounter.

Night Elves: shadowmeld is very meh.  Two minutes of invisibility while standing perfectly still 1/session?  Very not awesome.  At least make it for the duration of the encounter.  In fact, you might consider making them able to do this as long as it's night and the moon is out.

Draenei: healing someone for the highest of their ability score modifier is weaksauce, even if it is 1/encounter.  Not only does it not really make sense (why am I healing someone with  my super powerful Strength score?), but it's incredibly weak when characters are gaining 1d10 HP per level.  Also, what kind of action does the Gift of the Naaru take?  That being said, you need to make it something that scales with level and preferably variable.  Maybe 1d6 + your Spirit modifier?  Increase by 1d6 at levels 3, 6, and 9.

Gnomes: Escape Artist is bland; I'd make it a 1/session can automatically escape any restraints and maybe give them something else to make them more interesting.

Worgen: why does he lose all ability bonuses when human?  Doesn't make sense.  I might impose a -4 penalty on all ability checks while human (less math that way) and worsen the interaction penalty to -4 (or even just say that people are fearful of him and will generally shun him).  What kind of action does it take to change between forms?

Orcs: do not like Bloody Fury.  A +5 bonus to all rolls in combat for four rounds 1/session?  Well, I don't like the ability applying to all rolls in combat, and I don't like that it lasts for only four rounds.  (Gotta stop thinking in terms of strict MMORPG-to-paper mechanics and start thinking in tabletop terms.)  It should probably apply to Strength and Dexterity-related tasks and perhaps saving throws, but I'm very "meh" on that applying to spells.

Forsaken: I do like cannibalize, but again, you have non-scaling healing.  Throw the undead a bone here--if they can only eat a corpse 1/session, make that healing count.  1d10 per level at the least.  Also, adding your highest attribute modifier is lame, and how long does it take to eat a corpse?

Tauren: war stomp is okay as 1/session because it automatically works, but a two-round stun is a little much.  I might lessen that to one round.  Or, better yet, make it allow a saving throw and do it 1/encounter.

Trolls: wow, regeneration is good.  It's probably too good, in fact.  I might make regeneration a 1/session short-term ability and keep the passive bonus to healing.

Blood Elves: no complaints about Arcane Torrent.

Goblins seem okay.  Will provide more commentary later.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;530561Y\'know, I\'ve learned something from this thread. Both B.T. and Koltar are idiots, but whereas B.T. possesses a malign intelligence, Koltar is just a drooling fuckwit.

So, that\'s something, I guess.

J Arcane

QuoteFirst up: character creation.  I like the stat rolling method, though I'm surprised that the base range is 2-12 instead of 3-18.  Any particular reason for this?  (Just curious, not saying it's bad.)  Calculating stat bonuses as (stat - 6)/2 is a better way of dealing with modifiers, too, as it limits the spread -2 to +3 range for starting characters.

The reason for this is simply that stats are meant to escalate more than the would in, say, D20.  Gear gives you bonuses to stats fairly generously, and in fact, as you'll notice, stats are pretty much the font from which all flows, there's no set attack bonus, it's all based on your stats.  

QuoteWith regard to method #3 in chargen:

I would advise putting a cap on this, making the maximum stat of 12 to start.  Given the starting ability score boosts, this could very well get excessive.  A new character can start with a 16 in a stat and then get a +4 racial bonus to it, giving him a +7 bonus to begin.  Seems a bit high to me.
This is probably a good idea.  I mostly intended the selected point amount to make such a min-maxing difficult, but it is still something possible within the rules.  

QuoteNow, moving on to the races.  First, to racial bonuses.  Giving any one race a +4 bonus to a single stat seems a poor choice to me just for math reasons.  I'd limit it to +2, myself.

Next: the races themselves.  Do humans really need +4 Spirit?  Or could they get +2 Spirit, +2 to another stat?  Or just +2 to a single stat since they have no penalties?  Also, their racial ability is lame.

Humans are the way they are for purely emulative reasons.  That's pretty much what they get in World of Warcraft too.  That and a lame bonus to sword skill.  

The thing to remember about the racial abilities is that, much like in Warcraft, they aren't designed to be seriously major powers, just minor "in a pinch" buttons or bonuses that might get you out of a scrape here and there but won't necessarily be a huge deal and may become irrelevant by late game as you point out.  

Going down the list though, some of your thoughts do jump out at me:
QuoteGnomes: Escape Artist is bland; I'd make it a 1/session can automatically escape any restraints and maybe give them something else to make them more interesting.

I do kind of like the idea here of making this a use effect instead of a flat bonus.  I may consider it.  

QuoteWorgen: why does he lose all ability bonuses when human?  Doesn't make sense.  I might impose a -4 penalty on all ability checks while human (less math that way) and worsen the interaction penalty to -4 (or even just say that people are fearful of him and will generally shun him).  What kind of action does it take to change between forms?

The Worgen ability is kind of a flavor thing, really, a story power rather than a combat one.  Turning into a human is intended to provide a useful disguise in non-combat situations, Worgen are still meant to go full apeshit when the hurting starts.  This is, again, intended to emulate the game.  In WoW, Worgen automatically switch to wolfman form once combat starts.

QuoteOrcs: do not like Bloody Fury.  A +5 bonus to all rolls in combat for four rounds 1/session?  Well, I don't like the ability applying to all rolls in combat, and I don't like that it lasts for only four rounds.  (Gotta stop thinking in terms of strict MMORPG-to-paper mechanics and start thinking in tabletop terms.)  It should probably apply to Strength and Dexterity-related tasks and perhaps saving throws, but I'm very "meh" on that applying to spells.

I think you are right here.  I believe my intent was actually to have it do exactly that: only apply to Strength and Agility related actions, not spellcasting, but the power was developed in an early stage when some of the language hadn't been clearly worked out yet.  I should probably put that in the errata.  

QuoteTrolls: wow, regeneration is good.  It's probably too good, in fact.  I might make regeneration a 1/session short-term ability and keep the passive bonus to healing.

This is probably true as well, and something that jumped out at me as I was re-reading it at the beginning of Alpha 3's process, but I shamelessly ignored it.  The Troll ability is the one power that really doesn't quite classify as an "early level oh shit button" the way the others do, it's properly powerful, even at high level 2 points a round could add up.  

Making it a single-combat ability would maybe be a better idea from a balance perspective.
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B.T.

As an aside, what program did you use to format your text?
Quote from: Black Vulmea;530561Y\'know, I\'ve learned something from this thread. Both B.T. and Koltar are idiots, but whereas B.T. possesses a malign intelligence, Koltar is just a drooling fuckwit.

So, that\'s something, I guess.

J Arcane

All the formatting was done in OpenOffice by Sam Drost, my layout guy.  And a fine job of it too.
Bedroom Wall Press - Games that make you feel like a kid again.

Arcana Rising - An Urban Fantasy Roleplaying Game, powered by Hulks and Horrors.
Hulks and Horrors - A Sci-Fi Roleplaying game of Exploration and Dungeon Adventure
Heaven\'s Shadow - A Roleplaying Game of Faith and Assassination

B.T.

As a general note, you're going to have to include the types of actions that it takes to activate powers and abilities.  In addition, I'd like to see some more fluff about what abilities are doing what.  What does Death Coil look, for example?

Onto the Death Knight.  Some questions about the class.

1. Runic Power: How long do these runes last?  As far as the rules say, the death knight can beat up a bunch of guys at the bar, store up six runes, and then keep them in holding until he's ready to use them.  Furthermore, I'm not sure how the rules on attacks work, but I'm guessing that each character gets one attack per round.  Expecting the Death Knight to store up runes for four rounds before actually using them seems a bit unlikely.  Perhaps the Death Knight could get a leveled ability that lets him start combat with one rune or allow him to generate additional runes on a hit (or even a critical hit)?

2. Blood Presence: what is a presence, exactly?  I know it's a free action to use it and you can only have one on at a time, but I think we need a general rules explanation of how they work.

3. Death Grip: does this work on any monster?  What about something that is the size of a house?

4. Plague Strike may do too little damage for its duration, though I've not got to the point where I can judge how long combats last.

5. Should Death Coil heal the Death Knight?  If I recall correctly, it did in Warcraft III.

6. Death Strike seems really weak.  Not only does it cost three runes, but you have to already expend a bunch of runes to put diseases on the target to make it worthwhile.  The health bonus is nice, but I'd decrease the rune cost or bump up the damage/healing or something.  (If the Death Knight uses Icy Touch and Plague Strike against his enemy, he's going to do +2d8 damage and heal himself for that much.  And this is forever.  At level two, with 15 + 2d10 HP, he's healing +2d8 damage; at level 10, with 15 + 10d10 HP, he's healing 2d8 damage.)

7. Death and Decay does 10 damage at level 10.  The Death Knight has starting HP of 15 + 1d10.  And then the bonus HP for Stamina.  This ability needs a serious boost, especially if it costs three runes.

8. Unholy Presence is really good.  Really, really good.  Is it supposed to replace the other presences?  As far as I'm guessing, you're supposed to swap out presences based on the situation, but there are pretty much occasions when I'd want Blood Presence over Unholy Presence.  You may want to consider buffing Blood Presence and Frost Presence to make them compete.

In addition, since activating these abilities is a free action, is the Death Knight supposed to be swapping them out?  From what I've read thus far, I'd start the round with Unholy Presence, kill things, and then put Frost Presence up to defend myself.

9. Howling Blast: not so good.  If the Death Knight has six runes at level one, he can do 12d8 damage to everyone.  If the Death Knight has six runes at level 10, he can do 12d8 damage to everyone.  You're better off making this a set rune cost like the other powers.

10. Bone Shield does not scale.  Reducing damage by 10 at first level is great; reducing damage by 10 at tenth level is not so hot.  Same for Anti-Magic Shield.

11. Hungering Cold: just a note, but I'd reiterate the effects of Frost Fever.

Now for the druid.  How often does mana regenerate?

1. What is the range on these abilities?  I literally have no clue how far Wrath can be shot.  And how long does Thorns last?  And since it's half-level in damage, what happens when the druid uses it at level 1?

2. Thorns: eight mana for this ability?  Not worth it.  The druid can be doing 1d6/level with Wrath.

3. Moonfire: non-scaling damage means I'm not interested.  This is something you need to be aware of overall--make sure your abilities are scaling in power appropriately.

4. Entangling Roots's damage should scale slightly, but the paralysis effect is good.  When does the target make a Str vs. Int check to break free, though?  Is it when the druid casts the spell or is it on the target's turn?  And what sort of action does it take to do this?

5. Rejuvenation: needs to scale.

6. Rebirth says that the druid "attempts" to revive her target.  What does this mean?

7. Hurricane: needs to scale, and if the text says there are buffeting winds, I expect some sort of mechanical effect to go with it.

8. Gift of the Wild is a mess to adjudicate.  So everyone near the druid gets a +5 bonus to their stats.  What happens when the health bonus from Stamina goes away?  Can they die from that health loss?  And what happens when they step back in the aura?  Do they gain more health?  This ability needs to be reworked.

9. Insect Swarm is pretty good, but a slight boost to damage based on level would be nice.

10. Feral Charge seems pretty powerful with a stun for two rounds.  You might want to make the stun a contested roll that lasts for a single round, since the leap + attack is already pretty good.

11. Wild Growth: needs to scale.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;530561Y\'know, I\'ve learned something from this thread. Both B.T. and Koltar are idiots, but whereas B.T. possesses a malign intelligence, Koltar is just a drooling fuckwit.

So, that\'s something, I guess.

J Arcane

I'm thinking your latest post is a sterling example of why attempting to review a game line by line is perhaps not the best way to do things.  There are many questions here that will be answered on a complete read through of the game.  

Quote from: B.T.;5150151. Runic Power: How long do these runes last?  As far as the rules say, the death knight can beat up a bunch of guys at the bar, store up six runes, and then keep them in holding until he's ready to use them.  Furthermore, I'm not sure how the rules on attacks work, but I'm guessing that each character gets one attack per round.  Expecting the Death Knight to store up runes for four rounds before actually using them seems a bit unlikely.  Perhaps the Death Knight could get a leveled ability that lets him start combat with one rune or allow him to generate additional runes on a hit (or even a critical hit)?

They should end with combat, as the Rogue's combo points do.  This is admittedly unclear.  As for ability to build them, remember that with dual-wielding and Unholy Presence it is possibly to generate up to 3 runes in a single round.  

Quote3. Death Grip: does this work on any monster?  What about something that is the size of a house?

It works on anything but Bosses in WoW, including things the size of a house.  I would leave that as an exercise for the group's relative suspension of disbelief.

Quote5. Should Death Coil heal the Death Knight?  If I recall correctly, it did in Warcraft III.
Death Coil works as it does in WoW.  

Quote8. Unholy Presence is really good.  Really, really good.  Is it supposed to replace the other presences?  As far as I'm guessing, you're supposed to swap out presences based on the situation, but there are pretty much occasions when I'd want Blood Presence over Unholy Presence.  You may want to consider buffing Blood Presence and Frost Presence to make them compete.

In addition, since activating these abilities is a free action, is the Death Knight supposed to be swapping them out?  From what I've read thus far, I'd start the round with Unholy Presence, kill things, and then put Frost Presence up to defend myself.

As explained in the combat chapter, you get one Free Action per round.  

Quote9. Howling Blast: not so good.  If the Death Knight has six runes at level one, he can do 12d8 damage to everyone.  If the Death Knight has six runes at level 10, he can do 12d8 damage to everyone.  You're better off making this a set rune cost like the other powers.

Howling Blast can't even be taken until level 3, and the Death Knight will still be taking at least 3 rounds at that level to build up enough runes to cast it at that power level.  It is powerful, yes, and should maybe be a once-per-combat ability, but I'm not sure it's as big a problem as you state.  


Quote1. What is the range on these abilities?  I literally have no clue how far Wrath can be shot.  And how long does Thorns last?  And since it's half-level in damage, what happens when the druid uses it at level 1?

In addition to the ranges described by some abilities, all Ranged, Magical, and Automatic attacks
have a maximum range of 36 yds, and all Melee attacks can only be used if within 2 yds of their
target.
p.38

Quote6. Rebirth says that the druid "attempts" to revive her target.  What does this mean?
Resurrection spells are the surest way to heal an incapacitated character to life. Note however,
that a Resurrection spell is not guaranteed, and is handled as a Spirit check against the deceased,
with a TN equal to the amount of damage taken in excess of the target's Health, with a success
meaning that the target has been revived, and a failure indicating that the caster cannot revive the
character. Resurrection by the particular spell used cannot be attempted again except by a character
of higher skill or level.
p.39
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