A lot of that argument is predicated on the notion that metagaming isn't good for anybody.

Metagaming is what happens when you're playing a game that people give a shit about.  Any game.  The players will think about it (a lot) if they like it.  What the fuck is the problem with that?

It happens, and it's ok.

Quote from: Planet Algol;492627So you haven't read the Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath?

Thanks for pointing this out.  I was going to say something about it, but he would just tell me what an asshole I am and how stupid the idea was.

Um... hey. If I may, a few posts back someone mentioned boardgames and the like. Just want to say that the idea of some type of board/card game where one player(s) play cultists trying to accomplish "x" and one player(s) play investigators trying to stop them might be pretty nifty, actually.

Quote from: daniel_ream;492559Permit me to clarify: the problem is that nearly all RPGs are essentially tactical wargames with a tacked on skill system.  RPGs that provide a mechanical framework for any activity other than personal combat with the same level of detail are vanishingly few.

I would suggest that this would be better rephrased as:

The problem for me is that there are not enough RPGs that provide other activities with the same level of detail as personal combat.  

Notably, this rephrasing doesn't say that there is anything bad about the existence of many RPGs with tactical combat - because there isn't.  Many people play them and enjoy them.

Quote from: Werekoala;492633Um... hey. If I may, a few posts back someone mentioned boardgames and the like. Just want to say that the idea of some type of board/card game where one player(s) play cultists trying to accomplish "x" and one player(s) play investigators trying to stop them might be pretty nifty, actually.

Imagine SJG's illuminati where the cultist plays his power structure face down, and the investigator gets special action tokens or something.

Quote from: Cranewings;492642Imagine SJG's illuminati where the cultist plays his power structure face down, and the investigator gets special action tokens or something.

Hrmm...

Yah, love Illuminati, still play it once a month or so.

Quote from: Werekoala;492643Hrmm...

Yah, love Illuminati, still play it once a month or so.

I'm pretty envious of that fact... Hail Eris.

Quote from: Planet Algol;492627So you haven't read the Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath?

Yep, I have.

I've read every published story by Lovecraft, including his ghostwritten stories, as well as the works of Robert Chambers, Lord Dunsany, Manly Wade Wellman, Clark Ashton Smith, Colin Wilson, and a host of modern writers who have contributed to the canon.

August Derleth I've always considered a bit of a hack, whose own ideas about the "Cthulhu Mythos" (a term he coined which Lovecraft didn't use) were contradictory to Lovecraft's premises.

Quote from: Cranewings;492645I'm pretty envious of that fact... Hail Eris.

HAIL ERIS!

(Proud Pope of the Discordian Church)

Quote from: Planet Algol;492626So making a character with high skill% in Occult, Arabic, and the like for CoC isn't metagaming?

Or do you use some sort of Traveller chargen to ensure there is no metagaming?

Tristam...

Quote from: Werekoala;492633Um... hey. If I may, a few posts back someone mentioned boardgames and the like. Just want to say that the idea of some type of board/card game where one player(s) play cultists trying to accomplish "x" and one player(s) play investigators trying to stop them might be pretty nifty, actually.

There is such a game: Escape from Innsmouth.  I own it, and it plays pretty fun. One player is the human, the other 1-3 players are the deep ones trying to kill the human before he can round up his captured friends and escape from the city.

RPGPundit

Quote from: jhkim;492638I would suggest that this would be better rephrased as:

God's Teeth, it's 2011.  Do I really have to put "IMHO" in front of every sentence?

I'm not even going to touch the whole "melee combat is precious and special and so much more important than anything else that could ever happen in an adventure game, so of course it has to take up 75% of the rulebook" thing.  I'm tired of buckshotting that canard.

Quote from: daniel_ream;492976God's Teeth, it's 2011.  Do I really have to put "IMHO" in front of every sentence?

I'm not even going to touch the whole "melee combat is precious and special and so much more important than anything else that could ever happen in an adventure game, so of course it has to take up 75% of the rulebook" thing.  I'm tired of buckshotting that canard.

What game are you playing? It's like 20 pages of the Pathfinder rule book, which is 600 pages. I don't remember it ever being a big part of the D&D rule books, not like spells or magic items or even skills from 3e on.

Quote from: Cranewings;492977What game are you playing? It's like 20 pages of the Pathfinder rule book, which is 600 pages. I don't remember it ever being a big part of the D&D rule books, not like spells or magic items or even skills from 3e on.

He's fighting canard with canard. It's the only way to be sure.

After jacking firearms and kung fu I like to dump skill % into Credit Rating. There's three reasons for this:

a) It can translate into starting $$$ and income. More money = more juice; you can solve a lot of problems by throwing money at it. My higher level AD&D PCs are generally broke, despite the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of experience gold pieces due to my fondness for the aforementioned tactic.

b) I've owned a lot of CoC scenarios and campaigns, and my impression is that Credit Rating was one of the more common social skills referenced to in the text. And yeah, having a high credit rating allows my PC has turned out useful for investigation tactics such as getting information by pretending to be interested in buying real estate or starting a business. Enjoying the benefits to being one of the 1% - actually both kinds of 1% (being oligarch and also, due to the violent, illegal lifestyle of the PC, being a outlaw despite any facade of respectability).

c) I absolutely love pumping an NPC for information in their office by making an appointment with them, and when in their office and in the act of sitting down reaching into the back pocket and saying "Excuse me but this dang wallet of mine is so big it's uncomfortable to sit on" while slapping his brick of a wallet, stuffed with cash, on the desk.

We had a Keeper who let us put a french 75mm field howitzer on the back of a flatbed truck - two of the group aced their engineering rolls (I think that was the skill; I don't have a rulebook handy) so there was no "gun tears itself loose of your ad-hoc mounting, impales the driver, explodes the rest of the ammo" type stuff going on, but it was very much an infrequently used weapon.