Quote from: Imperator;491513This and this. I did a lot of horrible GMPCing when I was younger, and these days I try to be a referee and nothing more. My games are better than ever.

I was never a GMPC'er. In fact, if there's one place where I end up trying to constrain player choice it's whenever they want an NPC to accompany the party: I don't want to deal with it. I've already got nineteen balls in the air; trying to keep track of a GMPC never works out well. For the longest time, my NPCs would try to find every possible excuse to NOT accompany the PCs.

In recent years, I've gotten better about just pushing those stat blocks off onto the players: If they want NPCs along for the ride, they get to run them.

Quote from: Blazing Donkey;491477I'm playing in the game of some randoms I met at the RPG store.  During a break, we all took a short walk to a store to get snacks and such. The GM loudly asks, "Who wants to buy a Red Bull for the GM? Might make a difference when we start playing again...!" He tried to act like he was kidding about it, but I later found out he wasn't and did that all the time - getting the others to buy all his stuff. The other players hadn't played very much & got the idea that this was 'normal' and even a right of the GM.

In general, at our table, the GM provides the game and the players provide the snacks/drinks/pizza.

Given the hours of prep and the dozens or hundreds of dollars the GM spends on materials for the campaign, they still end up on the short-end of the stick 9 times out of 10, IMO.

Quote from: Spike;491608Ah the dreaded GMPC.

As a player, I always did my best to have my character kill any GMPCs. My fellow players usually did too -and called "BULLSHIT!" when the DM tried to pull from his ass why the GMPC couldn't be killed. We exacted this kind of frontier justice on characters with idiotic names, too.

Quote from: chaosvoyager;491618Why didn't you just ask him if your Web spell was in range of the Hydra to begin with?

Because when I did, he did not know how far away the hydra was or what the range of a web spell was and could not answer either question.

Pseudoephedrine: He sounds a little like one of the DMs from the "You have to guess at the range from the clues I've given" school of thought.

With an added dose of incompetent and crazy.

Quote from: Elfdart;491651As a player, I always did my best to have my character kill any GMPCs. My fellow players usually did too -and called "BULLSHIT!" when the DM tried to pull from his ass why the GMPC couldn't be killed.

We did the same thing in one of our games as well. We waited until the GMPC, a Kender Elf, was looking out a very high window of a tower on the edge of a cliff. The half-ork Barbarian then picked him up and threw him as far forward as he could. The GM said he landed on a Carpet of Flying which just happened to be floating around out there. We threatened to fire him at that point and that was the last time he used a GMPC.

Quote from: Kaldric;491680Pseudoephedrine: He sounds a little like one of the DMs from the "You have to guess at the range from the clues I've given" school of thought.

With an added dose of incompetent and crazy.

He's one of those guys who gets a scene in his head and wants to enact it, but is unable to describe it coherently to others, compounded by the fact that we were using a fairly crunchy rules-system that he didn't know well and various control issues.

The conclusion of that game ended with a lich appearing and killing us all while the DM gloated. He said "That's what you get when you try to hijack the game" to me after my wizard PC started using Lesser Orb of Sound to blow holes in the floor to traverse safely between levels of the dungeon (which was filled with deathtraps). I went outside for a smoke so that I wouldn't deck him for it. That story is for another time though.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;491688He's one of those guys who gets a scene in his head and wants to enact it, but is unable to describe it coherently to others, compounded by the fact that we were using a fairly crunchy rules-system that he didn't know well and various control issues.

By and far, that's the biggest problem I've seen with bad GMs: control issues.

In a WoD Vampire game, we had a GM who had spent months contructing elaborate social links between various NPCs and expected the PCs to interact with all of them exactly as the GM had imagined. When a Tzimisce in our party killed some nosy members of the Arcanum (run by the GM), it apparently unraveled the entire elaborate plot-line that he had constructed. He got so mad that he quit right there and told us to "run your own damn game". - LOL.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;491688...I went outside for a smoke so that I wouldn't deck him for it. That story is for another time though.

You should have pasted him one right in the cocksucker WHILE also sucking down a coffin nail... *POW*

The central error any GM can commit, of which all the various things listed in this thread are just symptoms of one sort or another, is to start thinking that the players are there for his sake, rather than vice versa; be it for the "sake" of his personal comfort or entertainment, or for the "sake" of seeing how wonderful his awesome "story" or crazy setting is (or yes, his "incredible" GMPCs).

If the GM remembers his job, which is to create the setting for the players to play in, then everything else is pretty much a question of developing that craft.

RPGPundit

When I was still gaming somewhat regularly, I was always the GM. I don't mind it really, since I [strike]am[/strike] try to be a writer; but sometimes I want to just play as a character.

One of the players in our group said that he wanted to try running a campaign. The other players and I were skeptical, this guy wasn't the brightest bulb on the tree; but we consented since it was clearly going to make him happy and I would get to take a break from running the game (and also have a chance to explore further possible story archs and what-not).

Anyway, he said his wife was helping him with the plot because "she reads a lot of books."

A month or so later he announced in one of my games that he was ready with his, so we played one more game in mine and I left them on a cliff hanger (some major NPC friend of theirs and high ranking official was just found murdered), prepared next week to play.

Everything was fine at first, making characters for the first hour like new campaigns always are; and then we launched into his story. At first it was okay but it all seemed vaguely familiar. At the end of the second gaming session I was talking to another of the players (we'll call him joe) and he echoed my thoughts, there was something familiar about the plot.

When the third gaming session was in play, Joe and I kept exchanging glances when notes of familiarity hit us. In the fourth gaming session it became clear: We were playing a more epic-fantasyesque version of The People of the Mist, a novel that Joe had leant me and then had leant the game master... Who apparently didn't read it and had his wife read it.

Naturally, Joe and I knew where the plot was taking us. This made it INCREDIBLY HARD to roleplay (so incredibly hard that I used capital letters) our characters, since we knew what was going to happen anyway. Eventually we got sick of it and completed the plot in the fifth gaming session. According to the temporary GMs plans, this was going to be at least 10 sessions long. lol.

We went back to my campaign after that. I'm still kind of bummed that I didn't get to play more as a PC.

Quote from: Blazing Donkey;491477Greetings to all...

We've got a thread about bad players conduct, but what about bad GM conduct? -- I think I can safely speak for everyone when I say that there are some people out there who are simply not qualified to run a RPG.

I've had the honor of learning from some really excellent GM's over the past 25 years, but I've also had the misfortune of being in the games of some real classless dickheads.

So what sorts of bad GM experiences have you had?

Here are some of mine:

- The Direction Enforcer

This GM is the guy that gives you multiple ways to go, but will only let you go the direction he/she wants. This is usually because he/she hasn't created the rest of the map or hasn't given any thought to anything but their version of their preconcieved story.

For example:

GM: "The hallway branches to the left and right. Directly in front of you is an open elevator."

PCs: "We go to the left."

GM: "A huge fire suddenly springs up, blocking your way. You can't put it out."

PCs: "We go to the right corridor."

GM: "A bunch of 3' thick metal doors drop out of the ceiling and seal off the hallways."

PCs: "Fine. We get in the fucking elevator...."

- The Player Controler

A variation on the first example, this is the GM who tells you what you choose to do (or what you think) as a coercive means of advancing the plot. Again, this is usually because the GM hasn't thought ahead and/or simlpy lacks sufficient creativity to run the game beyond a very bare-bones level.

Example: The party has encountered a mysterious old man in the ruins of a dead city. The person suggests that the PCs follow them. The GM suddenly breaks in: "You all decide that he's trustworthy and you follow him."

Or: The party is walking through the woods when they hear a strange noise off to the east. Before they can react, the GM breaks in: "You all think you should investigate the noise."

Personally, I think taking control of the players like this is one of the worst crimes a GM can commit. It defeats the point of everything.

- Princess of Power

Only had this happen to me once, but I've heard other people bitch about it: the GM requests some sort of special treatment and/or the granting of favors out of game because they are the GM.

The GM asks players to bring him stuff from the fridge because "I'm GM and I don't want to get up" or some BS like that.

Here's what happened to me personally:

I'm playing in the game of some randoms I met at the RPG store.  During a break, we all took a short walk to a store to get snacks and such. The GM loudly asks, "Who wants to buy a Red Bull for the GM? Might make a difference when we start playing again...!" He tried to act like he was kidding about it, but I later found out he wasn't and did that all the time - getting the others to buy all his stuff. The other players hadn't played very much & got the idea that this was 'normal' and even a right of the GM.

The reaction I had upon learning this is perhaps better imagined that described.

- The Distracted Dipshit

Like everyone else, my life is pretty busy and it's not always easy to find a time to play when everyone can meet. So when we do get togather, I want to play; that is what I'm there for.

But you get one of these people and they want to show you a bunch of crap on their computer first, rant on about something irrelevent (eg. their neighbor), or show you newest book they got and tell you why it's better than sex.Thus, you spend anywhere from 20-60 minutes on non-game related stuff before anybody even pulls out their character.

Endlessly frustrating.

That's all for now, but I can think of many more examples, as I'm sure you can. Share 'em with us.

The above examples of DM's you mentioned are just stunning.  What a bunch of friggin tools.

Quote from: RPGPundit;491921The central error any GM can commit, of which all the various things listed in this thread are just symptoms of one sort or another, is to start thinking that the players are there for his sake, rather than vice versa; be it for the "sake" of his personal comfort or entertainment, or for the "sake" of seeing how wonderful his awesome "story" or crazy setting is (or yes, his "incredible" GMPCs).

If the GM remembers his job, which is to create the setting for the players to play in, then everything else is pretty much a question of developing that craft.

This.

Quote from: Werekoala;491533We always used to buy the DM pizza or something - not to buy favors, but just as a way of saying "thanks" for putting in the effort. But we always DID make it sound like this.

This is how things work in our games. Everybody brings drinks/food, the DM brings the game. It is a way of recognizing that the players just show up, but the DM has to work with their fun in mind.

Another archetype:

The fustigator

This DM let's the player do what they want, and then flogs them endlessly for all the stupid things they did.

"I guess that two rangers in the party do not reach, together, the intelligence level needed to say 'Let's follow these tracks!"

"Someone read on the manual what 'Protection from Evil' actually does? Anyone?"

"Casting 'Light' on your banner, at night, while facing 10,000 dark elves armed with bows was cool for a whole round, I agree".

"For what happened you have to thank your Genasi and her unique sense for Lost Causes..."

"NPCs aren't there to tell you what to do. Your mind should do that. OTOH, lacking the latter..."

"The Paladin didn't read the fine print. Not that I'm surprised".

"A +5 longsword, +10 vs. Red Dragons, and a Red Dragon were meant as a clue, you know? But don't worry: next time the goddess will wrap instruction around it".

"The intelligent thing to do was following the wizard, not attacking him... so, of course, you being you, I prepared the fight".

This kind of DM being me, BTW

In your defense, some of those do sound like the players were idiots.

How to be a lousy player: the Joker. I don't know what it is about gaming, perhaps people are just naturally insecure about 'let's pretend' or acting or whatever, but there's always a few players that piss about. Heaven forfend if you set, say an SF adventure, on the planet Uranus! A GM can easily be lured into the communal jokery lest they be seen as unfrioendly, uncool or a pariah.