It's funny, when I first read the release, I just assumed there was some technicality I missed...but still no decent explanation after this much time. Dang, it's like they animated Lorraine Williams to do their staffing and editing.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;475135I can't believe they wrote a press release for their own book and somehow managed not to address the history of roleplaying. Don't they know what press releases are for?

I wondered where you were.

Quote from: One Horse Town;475146I wondered where you were.

Seanchai's gone, some 4venger had to come in and make a pathetically bad-faith comment about WotC ignorance of their own products and/or outright deception being completely understandable.  We needed a gaping ahole the size of AM though to actually try and turn the tables around on the people laughing at the sheer stupidity of the marketing statement.  Thank god he came back.  

Quote from: CRKrueger;475152Seanchai's gone, some 4venger had to come in and make a pathetically bad-faith comment about WotC ignorance of their own products and/or outright deception being completely understandable.  We needed a gaping ahole the size of AM though to actually try and turn the tables around on the people laughing at the sheer stupidity of the marketing statement.  Thank god he came back.  

Ah, the usual impotent outrage.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;475219Ah, the usual impotent outrage.

Welcome back! You've been seriously missed. By me, at any rate.

Have you had a look at the book? Is it any good?

Quote from: Windjammer;475231Welcome back! You've been seriously missed. By me, at any rate.

Have you had a look at the book? Is it any good?

I've only paged through it really briefly at GenCon. I played in a game last night where everyone else had it, though. The things other players liked were the themes. (Which are like a generalist extension of the Dark Sun themes- these are drop in replacements of certain abilities to fit a character background).

I can't tell you much about it, other than that.

Hey, welcome back.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;475135I can't believe they wrote a press release for their own book and somehow managed not to address the history of roleplaying. Don't they know what press releases are for?

I call strawman on that. No one's asking them to paste an effigy of Gary on the press release header.

We're just arguing that claiming that Neverwinter is the "the first ever" RPG sourcebook about a single city is an extraordinarily misinformed statement under any circumstance, let alone in a press release from our fledgling industry's leader. It suggests that whoever wrote this is an absolute stranger or, at best, a newcomer to the hobby.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;475257I've only paged through it really briefly at GenCon. I played in a game last night where everyone else had it, though. The things other players liked were the themes. (Which are like a generalist extension of the Dark Sun themes- these are drop in replacements of certain abilities to fit a character background).

Yes, we saw previews of the themes as presented for sample characters some time ago online. Compiled into a handy PDF here (2 MB file size though), I guess these could be printed out in glorious colour and then explored in play, regardless of whether one'd want to purchase the full book.

Also, there's the preview of the themes at the WotC website, replete with a full sample of one such theme. I like the idea, but am unsure about the mechanical implementation. Also, seems rather geared for particular classes - not a bad idea in general, but when you factor in racial prerequisites for some of them, that's maybe a tad too specific. Finally, Dark Sun needed themes to give specific spins on familiar classes - like Defiler magic - but I'm unsure that vanilla D&D needs themes over and above Faerun specific 'backgrounds' of the mechanically 'thinner' PHB 2 variety.

Quote from: The Butcher;475264It suggests that whoever wrote this is an absolute stranger or, at best, a newcomer to the hobby.

Well, that's certainly true. It's a dumb statement and a mistake. But that's it, though. It's not the grievous insult some people are trying to make it into. It's a nothing.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;475275Well, that's certainly true. It's a dumb statement and a mistake.

Hmm, that's a first...

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;475275But that's it, though.

Aha, here we go...

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;475275It's not the grievous insult some people are trying to make it into.

Actually the only one claiming grievous insult was you (strawman #2), everyone else was focused on how ridiculous it is for a marketing release to be so ignorant of it's own product, and how funny it that they make even more errors in qualifying, when all they had to say was, "oops".

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;475275It's a nothing.

Apparently enough to get you back here into 4venger mode.  

Cue sarcastic and flippant dismissal from the self-admitted troll returning to defend a 4e thread.

At least you'll probably engage in constructive discussions with Windjammer about the book, too bad you can't drop the schtick while you do it.

Could we not do this shit again? Thank you.

In a way, I see this whole affair as being related to one of AM's theories, though. And I must admit, it vindicates sth.

The press release shows, that there must be someone who has no clue whatsoever about pre-Essentials 4e or D&D itself. So, in the greater scheme of things, on a scale only involving MtG and Pokemon in addition to D&D, it is possible for people to give not a fucking fuck about D&D.
Which in turn is a slap in the face to us D&D afficcionados. But really, not even MtG people give a fuck.
For those of us who are invested and give a fuck, this is giving us agita. Because it becomes clear we are indeed, not as relevant as implicitly thought. On the other hand it is a clear showing of disrespect by WotC. Careless disrespect is to be avoided, if it is so easy.
But that only reinforces that WotC doesn't give a fuck. Which is sorta sad for us, even for the Encont4rds- WotC does not even think you are relevent anymore.
So welcome AM, welcome in the land of the irrelevant about whom nobody gives a fuck anymore.

Quote from: Melan;475292Could we not do this shit again? Thank you.

What, pretend all the little troll crap AM throws into his posts here and there isn't done on purpose and is actually subtle?  Sure, why not.

I, for one, don't really care about it except that it's a pretty stupid mistake when 4e itself released previous city-focused material.  

And it was even dumber to take the route of "well, see, technically we're right because it's the first ever post-essentials 4e hardback book solely on a settlement specifically called a 'city'..." which is the sort of thing that is always groan-inducing, mostly because I've dealt with people like that at various jobs IRL and it's really annoying when they try to weasel-word their way out of being wrong.

We are offended, because they do not even give enough of a fuck to apologize in any coherent way. They are disrespecting us. That is why we are mad, and this is especially what AM diagnosed. He was right.