Quote from: Spinachcat;466191The majority of my fellow Americans appear to believe this. Its going to take a few more centuries to excise the "feudal peasant" mentality from the species.

There's nothing "feudal" about that mentality.  In the middle-ages, people all universally despised merchants as the grubbing parasites that they were. The idea you're referring to is entirely the product of the industrial revolution, which was really the first time that wanting to make PROFIT for its own sake was not publicly viewed as extremely distasteful to say the least.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;466387There's nothing "feudal" about that mentality.  In the middle-ages, people all universally despised merchants as the grubbing parasites that they were. The idea you're referring to is entirely the product of the industrial revolution, which was really the first time that wanting to make PROFIT for its own sake was not publicly viewed as extremely distasteful to say the least.

RPGPundit

Yeah, during the Middle Ages, many theologians actually argued that charging more than the valued added for your labor to any product was immoral, irrespective of market demand. Since this would generally preclude economic "bubbles," they may have had a point.

Quote from: pawsplay;466436Yeah, during the Middle Ages, many theologians actually argued that charging more than the valued added for your labor to any product was immoral, irrespective of market demand. Since this would generally preclude economic "bubbles," they may have had a point.

Yes, one has to wonder if they weren't onto something there...

RPGPundit

Quote from: pawsplay;4659894. Engaging your audience
Supposedly, you by getting supporters, people are supposed to feel motivated to give you feedback and help you shape your project. In practice, I'm seeing Internet 101 all over again: 90% of people are lurkers. I give this a D-.

To elaborate on this, after 30/45 days of Kickstarting, and getting 16 backers, and specifically asking anyone for feedback on what they see... I've gotten exactly two pieces of feedback. One is from a guy I went to college with 17 years ago, who posted, "Whoa," in response to an art preview. The other is a privage message from a German, complaining about shipping charges to Europe.

Quote from: pawsplay;467457To elaborate on this, after 30/45 days of Kickstarting, and getting 16 backers, and specifically asking anyone for feedback on what they see... I've gotten exactly two pieces of feedback. One is from a guy I went to college with 17 years ago, who posted, "Whoa," in response to an art preview. The other is a privage message from a German, complaining about shipping charges to Europe.

That truly sucks.  On the other hand, I've heard that other projects get a lot of feedback.  So what do you think marks the difference between those that do and those that don't?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;467556That truly sucks.  On the other hand, I've heard that other projects get a lot of feedback.  So what do you think marks the difference between those that do and those that don't?

RPGPundit

I think the projects that get the feedback are those that let the contributors have access to the development-in-progress, draft documents and updated revisions - and allow you to feel useful in testing it out - this last bit is very important and not many designers understand it. It's not just all logical consideration when you're placing a bet.

I'm currently backing the Adventurer Conqueror King system - roleplaying across all levels of classic campaign play.

Starting From The Ground Up

Starting From The Ground Up Part 2

The Demographic of Heroism

The Secret Ratio

There's a developers forum, access to draft docs etc. Feedback, testing, proofing - they'll get that level of commitment because they're not treating the contributors as non-participants in the game's evolution.

Quote from: RPGPundit;467556That truly sucks.  On the other hand, I've heard that other projects get a lot of feedback.  So what do you think marks the difference between those that do and those that don't?

RPGPundit

No idea. I discount Sean !'s theory, however, because I have invited participation in the design process. On the other hand, I've seen projects that go to 300% funding levels that do none of that, and frankly, look like they kind of suck, besides. Perhaps I need a better marketing plan.

I'm going to try to get an alpha playtest up this last week or so and see if I can quadruple my recruitment rate...

It could just be luck I guess, but I would think it more likely that its some kind of capturing of zeitgeist...

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;467634It could just be luck I guess, but I would think it more likely that its some kind of capturing of zeitgeist...

RPGPundit

That's my feeling. In reflection, I am basically trying to carve out a new genre of science-fantasy. It's like all those games that were into zeppelins before zeppelins were cool. I went with 45 days intead of the typical 30 for the Kickstarter, but 90 might have been better. But I was nervous about whether people would be interested in committing themselves now for something that far into the future. Just by how many people have pledged so far, I have a feeling I've tapped into something good, but I don't have people talking about the project or spreading the word. I hope that means I'm on the verge of a breakthrough, not fulfilling the saga of an Australian rock/pop act.

Quote from: RPGPundit;457879I'm assuming, however, that with these games the basic premise is like what J Arcane described:  basically, people are committing to pre-ordering (not even paying for it unless the project becomes a reality).  So they ask you to contribute whatever, $25 lets say and the "reward" for that contribution is a single copy of the completed game when it comes out. You're basically just promising to buy the game, in a way that makes it impossible for you to lose money if the game never comes out, and impossible for the would-be customers to back-out if the game does get completed.  Its a two-way guarantee.

RPGPundit

Yup. This is exactly how it works.

Now, if you promise more money than the contribution you get increasingly growing rewards: more copies of the product, or a better looking printing, or whatnot. For example, the guy who plays Wollowitz in The Big Bang Theory has made a film this way. If you contributed the minimum amount you got your name on the list of contributors, but if you contributed several thousand dollars (can't remember the exact amount) this guy and his wife would hop on a plane, and go watch the movie with you and your friends at your home. If you are a big fan of some artist, this can be a major boon.

If I am not mistaken, in a Delta Green product one of the perks of the highest contributions was that the author (maybe Dennis Detwiler?) would run one of the adventures for you and your friends. Again, this can be greatifyou are a big fanboy.

Kickstarter seems a neat idea to me. Basically, you have nothing to lose as a contributor, and you may get nice perks if you put some more money than the minimum. Of course, that is quite personal: I'm not the fanboy type, so for me getting the author to sign the book or have he coming over to run a game is not a big deal, but I can see how many people would appreciate it.

Anyway, I think that Kickstarter works as long as you can create enthusiasm and have a good pool of followers. People like Greg Stolze do this all the time,and it works because they certainly deliver.

I think part of it too is the audience, of the type of people who are frequenting Kickstartr; I think its still new enough that it has a certain type of subculture, who might be more hip to certain products than others.

That might change, or other sites might show up that offer the same kind of deal to other demographic audiences.

RPGPundit

I think knowing what I know now, without big name recognition, a very long fundraising period is probably called for. Word of mouth can be very powerful, but it is also fitful, especially if you're asking people to invest in someone with an unproven or small track record.