Quote from: Blackhand;452896As an aside, I don't buy my books from retail outlets like my FLGS.

I don't really care for the FLGS.

I buy on ebay and on average get my books 20 Imperial Crowns cheaper.

Rogue Trader?  40 bucks!  New!

Inquisitor's Handbook?  28 bucks!  New!

Deathwatch?  38 bucks!  New!!

Once you see the power of Ebay, your FLGS needs to buck up what they are offering if they want you to spend your money there.  60 bucks for Deathwatch?

No thanks.

Except those are american prices.

Quote from: CRKrueger;452892If you try to run the Imperium with only what they give you in Dark Heresy, without having followed the setting the past 20-some years, you're in a very weak position knowledge-wise.

Actually, my impression is that people who haven't read Eisenhorn and Ravenor when chancing upon (and liking) Dark Heresy, will sooner or later want to read them anyway. (God how I wish there were some decent Rogue Trader novels of approximately equal merit.) Also, my distinct impression is that it also works the other way round, and that GW - for all their apparent IP restrictions - place advertisements for the FFG RPGs in their in house magazine to alert wargamers and novel readers of their existence. So, I take it that FFG and GW take the novels<->RPGs cross pollination pretty much for granted. (I also fail a bit to see how that's a concern.)

That may also address the following point.

Quote from: CRKrueger;452892The FFG 40k games are written to almost require the novels, codices and wargame books in order to run a "world in motion" campaign (I'm sure GW has that in mind, everything made for the wargame is supplemental for the RPG, the RPG brings nothing to the wargame).  By making the game more narratively and thematically focused, FFG gets around the limitation GW puts on them.

Thanks for that, I had never thought upon that way to rationalize the lack of background world info in the FFG product (beyond their own niches like Koronus et al). There's a thread on the FFG forums I book marked ages ago, it's posting #23 by Adam France in this thread - he remarks on the the development (in FFG product) your posting may help to rationalize.

I agree with Pseudoephedrine that, as long as Lexicanum exists, there's nothing to complain about from a customer's perspective. It's as if WotC would offer their background articles on DDI for free, really, with the decisive difference that stuff on Lexicanum is usually well researched and moderately well written.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;452899(Snipped for brevity.)

What baffles me the most is that a catch all Xenos (or Xenos/Chaos) Compendium would sell like nobody's business. The demand is clearly there for this, in fact probably more than anything else 40k related, and if the games are as cross compatible as has been claimed (which, again is something you won't know without bitter experience) then it would be very easy to do. Instead they write CA, are about to release Mark and then later there's a Xeno book for RT.

One book would cover all these games very easily. It wouldn't need excruciating detail, but it would be much more than the spartan provision in DW (a game about the people that fight aliens). One book would replace the design costs for three separate products and sell at least as much as all three combined. Now why don't FFG do this?

I would love to know what their thought process or planning processes are. Is it a licensing thing? Who knows, though I have my doubts considering they've allowed kroot and ork pc's and provided xenos in drips and drops hither and yon thus far. So would a centralised resource just not have made more sense.

What disappoints the most is the lack of transparency from FFG. Now they can run their business as they please (and indeed do) but I have seen nothing nor come across nothing pertaining to these issues. There's no communication to the customer/fans/horde as to the whys and wherefores of their approach to all this.

I'm just going to let you know that you're way off base here.

I'd be pissed if they put all xenos / chaos antagonists in one book.

I don't think that volume would sell.  It would be entirely at odds with the design and the line would suffer for it.

Blackhand misses with his axe of price chopping!

The Skulking Butters tries to backstab troll! Hit!

6 damage to troll!

The troll multipost attacks!

Critical hit on Krueger the Barbarian!

Skulking Butters is missed!

Blackhand is hit!

Krueger the Barbarian takes 20 points of damage!
Blackhand takes 3 points of damage!

Blackhand uses counter-attack!

Miss! The troll is unharmed!

Troll regenerates!

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;452901Except those are american prices.

Yeah, so basically HALF them for you UKs.

Quote from: Blackhand;452904I'm just going to let you know that you're way off base here.

I'd be pissed if they put all xenos / chaos antagonists in one book.

I don't think that volume would sell.  It would be entirely at odds with the design and the line would suffer for it.

And why, pray tell, would that be?

They don't have to put both chaos and xenos in one book. Two would cover all of it just sufficiently if need be. That's an acceptable compromise.

Though heavens forfend if it pisses you off of course.

Quote from: Blackhand;452908Yeah, so basically HALF them for you UKs.

Oh dear.

Quote from: Blackhand;452904I'm just going to let you know that you're way off base here.

I'd be pissed if they put all xenos / chaos antagonists in one book.

I don't think that volume would sell.  It would be entirely at odds with the design and the line would suffer for it.

In a thread chock full of stupidity, this takes the cake.

Yeah, let's not have stuff in an easy to use reference manual because otherwise people could use it for badwrongfun.  :rolleyes:

Heaven forbid someone not want to lug around a dozen different books to the gaming sessions and having to stop play to search through all of them to try and figure out which one has the Eldar Guardian stat in it.

Yes, you are correct, making things efficient and accessible is evil.  All hail the QWERTY-esque FFG design method!  It's better that way, honest.  :duh:

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;452910Oh dear.

Here's a link to an ebay buy-it-now.  Free shipping worldwide.

$42.47 USD = 25.71 GPB??

Quote from: Blackhand;452896Deathwatch?  38 bucks!  New!!

I said basically half.  43% is pretty fucking close.  

Quote from: jgants;452918In a thread chock full of stupidity, this takes the cake.

Yeah, let's not have stuff in an easy to use reference manual because otherwise people could use it for badwrongfun.  :rolleyes:

Heaven forbid someone not want to lug around a dozen different books to the gaming sessions and having to stop play to search through all of them to try and figure out which one has the Eldar Guardian stat in it.

Yes, you are correct, making things efficient and accessible is evil.  All hail the QWERTY-esque FFG design method!  It's better that way, honest.  :duh:

/fail

I'm referring not only to the design of the line as FFG has plotted it out, but also to the aesthetics of Warhammer in general.

Maybe my opinion is skewed because I don't mind buying books that are good looking and I also don't have to lug anything anywhere.  I already have all the reference material and all the miniatures and terrain besides...It's all up in the clubhouse.

Quote from: Blackhand;452904I'm just going to let you know that you're way off base here.

I'd be pissed if they put all xenos / chaos antagonists in one book.

I think you'd be all alone in that lonesome prairie... pissing all over yourself.

QuoteI don't think that volume would sell.  It would be entirely at odds with the design and the line would suffer for it.

I don't think you've got a clue what would/wouldn't sell... because you're too busy telling people why they should play the game according to your Canon Queen protocols... because you're the big 40K Know-it-all and play with miniatures and read all the books and have a napkin with Rick Priestley's cum on it and blah blah blah...

I'd buy a Xenos/Chaos book... I'd play Eldar... I don't give a fuck if GW wants MY game table to be humanocentric or not.

Eh, if they're going to put out yet _another_ antagonist book, there's only two options for it I'd like to see:

1) A monster and villain construction kit. Not just the one in the DH GM's kit, but a compendium of ideas, talents and rules for building arch-heretics, mutated monsters, daemons and xeno lifeforms and cultures.

2) A good villain compendium for RT with statted out fleets and an entire villainous bridge crew, complete with endeavours they're engaged in that you can screw with. Call it "Win At All Costs" or something.

We really don't need another monster manual after Mark of the Xenos comes out.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;452956Eh, if they're going to put out yet _another_ antagonist book, there's only two options for it I'd like to see:

I'm just responding to the idea of putting all the critters/races in one place... servicing all three games.

Quote1) A monster and villain construction kit. Not just the one in the DH GM's kit, but a compendium of ideas, talents and rules for building arch-heretics, mutated monsters, daemons and xeno lifeforms and cultures.

Yep, that would be a nice thing to have.

Quote2) A good villain compendium for RT with statted out fleets and an entire villainous bridge crew, complete with endeavours they're engaged in that you can screw with. Call it "Win At All Costs" or something.

That would make for a great anthology of proto-adventures.

QuoteWe really don't need another monster manual after Mark of the Xenos comes out.

'need'? Is it ever a matter of 'needing' more monster books?

Quote

Quote from: Blackhand;452936Here's a link to an ebay buy-it-now.  Free shipping worldwide.

$42.47 USD = 25.71 GPB??

Unbelievable. If you actually had read what i'd written, instead of insulting me at every turn, you'd have picked up the fact that I'd brought the bloody book a couple of days ago.

Oh and that would cost me a total of $83 including transatlantic shipping.

6 Xeno factions (not including Chaos if that's what we want to do) at a total of 40 pages each would be a 240 page supplement. Or you could chuck in Chaos as well to cover all bases for another 60 pages and that's still perfectly feasible. 40K isn't a setting with an endless supply of antagonists and aliens, like Star Trek. Even then there's nothing stopping FFG releasing subsequent compendiums with Xenos of their own design.

I fail to see how that's beyond the wit of man. Obviously FFG think the success of the game lies in stringing out such info across all sorts of books and gamelines, no matter how haphazard. I don't believe that's in their or the players' best interests. THey must have considered what I suggest surely!

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;453019Oh and that would cost me a total of $83 including transatlantic shipping.

Yes. So we got a person here who not only doesn't know how to operate Ebay, but also argues that disproportionately priced RPG books are fine marketing policy because them webshops will provide them at significantly reduced pricing.

It's pretty clear at this point that FFG has made a couple of important decisions on the 40K RPG lines based on the main strategy of catering to a small segment of dedicated fans. Those fans don't mind the pricing, or the shoddy editing, or the at times dubious selection and distribution of content. Apparently, those decisions have worked out for FFG, or otherwise they wouldn't follow them so rigorously. In that sense, I think it's pointless to vent anger over these decisions, especially towards people who've accepted them.