This feels like Tangency, with all the cool kids baiting one person they don't like.

Quote from: danbuter;452873This feels like Tangency, with all the cool kids baiting one person they don't like.

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't like him before all the cool kids hated him.

Quote from: danbuter;452873This feels like Tangency, with all the cool kids baiting one person they don't like.

Baiting?  The dude is flipping shit over...I don't even know what he's so upset about.  This is just the community self-moderating lunacy.

Quote from: danbuter;452873This feels like Tangency, with all the cool kids baiting one person they don't like.

A wandering monster appears!

Quote from: Peregrin;452877Baiting?  The dude is flipping shit over...I don't even know what he's so upset about.  This is just the community self-moderating lunacy.

You're lucky you have Skill Focus (Perform). All allies get +2 to their attacks!

The troll of the Whistling Ghost Caves continues to advance, emitting horrible, whinging screeches. A skulking Butters flits from shadow to shadow, waiting to pick off the weak. Peregrin's buff is still in operation until he decides to drop it.

Actions this round?

The way I see it, the OP has a list of choices.

1. Buy the other books, which he says he can't afford.
2. Make up the stuff he needs to use, which he doesn't want to do.
3. Not run Deathwatch.

But he choose option number four, the "nuclear option" if you will.

Since only Fantasy Flight, and certainly no one on this board, controls the content of their products, the nuclear option is useless. It only results in a high level of poo flinging and unnecessary personal attacks, which is detrimental to productive discourse on the board, should that be desired.

But carry on....

Quote from: PaladinCA;452889The way I see it, the OP has a list of choices.

1. Buy the other books, which he says he can't afford.
2. Make up the stuff he needs to use, which he doesn't want to do.
3. Not run Deathwatch.

But he choose option number four, the "nuclear option" if you will.

Since only Fantasy Flight, and certainly no one on this board, controls the content of their products, the nuclear option is useless. It only results in a high level of poo flinging and unnecessary personal attacks, which is detrimental to productive discourse on the board, should that be desired.

But carry on....

A Paladin appears and tries to cast calm emotions:

J Arcane fails his save and is calmed
Peregrin critically fails his save and is calmed
DrakNinj the Wizlord passes his save and remains hostile
Blackhand passes his save and remains hostile
Pika critically fails his save and is calmed
Troll passes his save and remains a whiner
Butters fails his save and is calmed

Ghost does have one point, however.

If you play The Laundry, you get enough info to actually play in The Laundry world without having read the books, same with Dresden, same with MERP.

If you try to run the Imperium with only what they give you in Dark Heresy, without having followed the setting the past 20-some years, you're in a very weak position knowledge-wise.

The FFG 40k games are written to almost require the novels, codices and wargame books in order to run a "world in motion" campaign (I'm sure GW has that in mind, everything made for the wargame is supplemental for the RPG, the RPG brings nothing to the wargame).  By making the game more narratively and thematically focused, FFG gets around the limitation GW puts on them.

The same technique is being done by C7 for The One Ring.  Instead of filling in tons of background information on Middle-Earth (which would require access to the Silmarillion and History of Middle-Earth, which no one's gonna get), they provide a laser-like focus on a specific area post-Hobbit and go forward through the generations on the way to LotR.  People who want a game like MERP will be as disappointed as Ghost is about Dark Heresy.   ICE tried to make a fully detailed emulative Middle-Earth, they had to violate the license to do it and got it yanked.

Green Ronin has the same problem, the Fatman has to ok anything for SIFRP, and he's on geological time.  Likewise Bioware has to ok anything Thedas, so they can't just come out with a 256-page hardbound book about the Tevinter Imperium.  

IP restrictions place serious handcuffs on RPG writers of licensed settings.  That leads to a level of dissatisfaction with any licensed property.  GW's heavy-handedness in this regard and FFG's method of dealing with it leaves the 40krpg's even more susceptible to this satisfaction if you don't have all the wargaming material to fall back on.

Quote from: CRKrueger;452892Ghost does have one point, however.

If you play The Laundry, you get enough info to actually play in The Laundry world without having read the books, same with Dresden, same with MERP.

If you try to run the Imperium with only what they give you in Dark Heresy, without having followed the setting the past 20-some years, you're in a very weak position knowledge-wise.

The FFG 40k games are written to almost require the novels, codices and wargame books in order to run a "world in motion" campaign (I'm sure GW has that in mind, everything made for the wargame is supplemental for the RPG, the RPG brings nothing to the wargame).  By making the game more narratively and thematically focused, FFG gets around the limitation GW puts on them.

The same technique is being done by C7 for The One Ring.  Instead of filling in tons of background information on Middle-Earth (which would require access to the Silmarillion and History of Middle-Earth, which no one's gonna get), they provide a laser-like focus on a specific area post-Hobbit and go forward through the generations on the way to LotR.  People who want a game like MERP will be as disappointed as Ghost is about Dark Heresy.   ICE tried to make a fully detailed emulative Middle-Earth, they had to violate the license to do it and got it yanked.

Green Ronin has the same problem, the Fatman has to ok anything for SIFRP, and he's on geological time.  Likewise Bioware has to ok anything Thedas, so they can't just come out with a 256-page hardbound book about the Tevinter Imperium.  

IP restrictions place serious handcuffs on RPG writers of licensed settings.  That leads to a level of dissatisfaction with any licensed property.  GW's heavy-handedness in this regard and FFG's method of dealing with it leaves the 40krpg's even more susceptible to this satisfaction if you don't have all the wargaming material to fall back on.

Only a partial success on the Knowledge (40K) check for Krueger the Barbarian.

Passing a higher DC would have allowed you to learn the names of multiple free resources with extensive information on the setting that are easily used instead of buying expensive books. Because of your low roll, if you want to learn more, you must pay 35gp for each book.

Quote from: danbuter;452873This feels like Tangency, with all the cool kids baiting one person they don't like.

No baiting - pointing and laughing.

Seanchai

As an aside, I don't buy my books from retail outlets like my FLGS.

I don't really care for the FLGS.

I buy on ebay and on average get my books 20 Imperial Crowns cheaper.

Rogue Trader?  40 bucks!  New!

Inquisitor's Handbook?  28 bucks!  New!

Deathwatch?  38 bucks!  New!!

Once you see the power of Ebay, your FLGS needs to buck up what they are offering if they want you to spend your money there.  60 bucks for Deathwatch?

No thanks.

Amazon also offers most of the 40k RPG books at steep discounts.

Quote from: CRKrueger;452892Ghost does have one point, however.

(Snipped for brevity.)

What baffles me the most is that a catch all Xenos (or Xenos/Chaos) Compendium would sell like nobody's business. The demand is clearly there for this, in fact probably more than anything else 40k related, and if the games are as cross compatible as has been claimed (which, again is something you won't know without bitter experience) then it would be very easy to do. Instead they write CA, are about to release Mark and then later there's a Xeno book for RT.

One book would cover all these games very easily. It wouldn't need excruciating detail, but it would be much more than the spartan provision in DW (a game about the people that fight aliens). One book would replace the design costs for three separate products and sell at least as much as all three combined. Now why don't FFG do this?

I would love to know what their thought process or planning processes are. Is it a licensing thing? Who knows, though I have my doubts considering they've allowed kroot and ork pc's and provided xenos in drips and drops hither and yon thus far. So would a centralised resource just not have made more sense.

What disappoints the most is the lack of transparency from FFG. Now they can run their business as they please (and indeed do) but I have seen nothing nor come across nothing pertaining to these issues. There's no communication to the customer/fans/horde as to the whys and wherefores of their approach to all this.

Quote from: danbuter;452897Amazon also offers most of the 40k RPG books at steep discounts.

Indeed, but not so much. It's still a lot of money.