Quote from: Ghost Whistler;452617other books I don't own and would have to buy - on top of support for DW that I might otherwise want (such as Rites of Battle, with it's chapter creation rules, extra gear and whatever). How do you not understand this point?

Protip: If you are unhappy with the antagonists in the corebook and unwilling to create your own antagonists, then you will have to buy books that contain antagonists.

These books exist already, and more are on their way (Mark of the Xenos is coming out in a month or so, as I said way back at the very start of the thread, another point you've been ignoring).

You don't have a point, you have a pair of childish complaints that are set up so as to be impossible to satisfy both simultaneously.

Hypocritical: you attack people for trolling, despite this thread being one giant troll from the start. You attack me for assuming things about your posts while making a pretty large assumption about my reading habits.

Ignorant: you repeatedly make claims about the game that are false, and uphold them despite it being repeatedly pointed out to you. You've made it abundantly clear you've neither read nor played the game.

So yes, hypocritical, and ignorant.  Jackass is mostly for flavor, but then I also consider anyone who makes a thread in bad faith asking "questions" they already think they know the answers to just so they have an excuse to bitch about the, and troll people who actually play a jackass.

Quote

Quote from: J Arcane;452626Hypocritical: you attack people for trolling, despite this thread being one giant troll from the start. You attack me for assuming things about your posts while making a pretty large assumption about my reading habits.

A thread itself cannot be trolling, since trolling is the very act of infiltrating a thread to talk irrelevant shit - like you've been doing. And attack is a rather motive word, even though that is exactly what you've been doing. You have contributed nothing other than abuse and insults. To what end?

The thread has a contentious title for sure, but that doesn't make it trolling. It's a thread discussing a game in a gaming forum.

QuoteIgnorant: you repeatedly make claims about the game that are false, and uphold them despite it being repeatedly pointed out to you. You've made it abundantly clear you've neither read nor played the game.

Pointing out something repeatedly doesn't make it true. People making claims whiel getting their knickers in a twist don't become more credible the more upset they get, and there are other threads i've visited where people have opinted out the differences between stat info across the games. Now does that mean those differences can be overcome or that it isn't easy to do so? I don't know because I don't have that information.

But - AGAIN - that STILL requires buying those books for that fraction of content. What part of that do you not understand?

QuoteSo yes, hypocritical, and ignorant.  Jackass is mostly for flavor, but then I also consider anyone who makes a thread in bad faith asking "questions" they already think they know the answers to just so they have an excuse to bitch about the, and troll people who actually play a jackass.

Who the fuck are you to tell the OP they are posting in bad faith? Sounds to me like the pair of you are wetnosed fanboys. Time to grow up I think and stop behaving like a spoilt child.

Uh oh, time for a diaper change.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;452629Uh oh, time for a diaper change.

Why do you continue to ignore the point about having to buy the extra books?

The surest sign of a troll is semantic games over what constitutes trolling.

Quote from: jgants;452611The topic of the thread has drifted a bit, you know.  My comment about Eldar, etc, was in reference to the idea that the only proper way to do a 40K RPG is to have a very narrow theme.  I think that's bullshit.

While I think that's a valid point, you phrased it in such a way (by complaining about the core book) as to distract the reader from it. That is, I think saying "I would have greatly preferred a generic 40K game" is fine and valid. But you came across as saying "I bought DW because I wanted a generic 40K game, and DW sucks because it isn't what I wanted", which is less valid and fine. All that aside, however, I think a generic 40K game would be a great thing -- but I also think it would be entirely overwhelming and monstrously unwieldy.

QuoteI, personally, could care less about running a Xenos campaign.  But I don't see why when other people ask for the rules to do such a thing they get nothing but grief.  And surely the Rogue Trader line could have been a much more Xenos friendly game - there's no reason at all for the rules not to support having an Ork Freebooter or Eldar Pirate crew instead (and yes, in a seperate supplement, fine - but it should at least exist).

I think it would be neat if FFG released a supplement with Xeno PC rules. That would be an interesting direction to take part of the line. I think the problem with people's requests to play as Xenos is simply the tone. That is, they complain that DH, RT, or DW are not the games they want them to be despite the fact that it's clear that they weren't designed to be the games they wanted, and then condemn that discrepancy between reality and desire as a flaw in the game itself. Which it really isn't. If I want A Game of Thrones to be a jaunty tale of superheroes like Martin's Wild Cards books, it would be ludicrous of me to say that AGoT is flawed because there's no superheroes in it like I wanted.

That being said, I'd be totally down with supplementary rules that allow for the creation of Xeno PCs. And if that's all people are asking for (rather than criticizing DW as somehow "broken" because it's not the game they envisioned in their mind's eye), then cool, cool, cool.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;452630Why do you continue to ignore the point about having to buy the extra books?

Because you've already said you're either too stupid or lazy to come up with your own monsters. So your only remaining option is to buy a book containing them.

Quote from: Géza Echs;452635That is, they complain that DH, RT, or DW are not the games they want them to be despite the fact that it's clear that they weren't designed to be the games they wanted, and then condemn that discrepancy between reality and desire as a flaw in the game itself.

HOw is it clear?

There can't be many if any logical reasons why Xenos are sa yet largely unplayable when they have given rules for Kroot and Ork (of all things).

Its far from clear and I think the only thing people expected was to be able to play Imperium characters and be able to face off against the remainder of the setting. I can see that Dark eldar and possibly Necrons might get short shrift, but that's it.

However even playable Xenos aren't a priority, at least for me. I have no problem with waiting for rules to play Eldar or Tau (which is really all that's needed, certainly for now).

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;452636Because you've already said you're either too stupid or lazy to come up with your own monsters. So your only remaining option is to buy a book containing them.

And you have missed the point entirely.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;452646And you have missed the point entirely.

Oh, I understand you don't want to buy books (or rather, you only want to buy books with DW branding, except for the antagonist book coming out in a month or so which has now been mentioned twice in this very thread), but you've already ruled out the only other alternative, so basically, there is no solution to your fake "issue".

Also, your reason for not wanting to buy non-DW books is a non-reason, as has been pointed out repeatedly. You continuously repeat it despite admitting your own ignorance in the matter and ignoring comments from those who are not ignorant of the situation.

Thus, lazy and stupid.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;452645HOw is it clear?

It's clear because DW never pretends to be anything but a game about Deathwatch members of the Imperial Space Marines in the book or in the advertising.

I think a perfectly valid point could be made about the weird scattershot presentation of various elements of the 40k universe in the FFG games.

However, Ghost Whistler is not making that point. In fact event horizon of his thought process is stained with the destroyed images of any argument that one could make, essentially ruining this thread from the very beginning.

It is, however, amusing to watch the monkey babble and fling poo at the zookeepers.

And so I sign off with the all to apropos:

Entertain Me, Motherfuckers!

The scattershot method of filling things in is part due to restrictions by GW.  At no point will another company be allowed to publish, say, a definitive guide to the Eldar, Dark Eldar, or whatever, because 1.) Then they wouldn't need to buy the Codices even though they don't play 40k (which many do), and 2.) GW changes and retcons things on a whim to suit the current edition.

So, instead of a Dark Eldar book or chapter that goes Codex item by Codex item and converts to RPG of your choice, they give you a guy here when present in a Dark Heresy adventure, a few threats here in a Rogue Trader section, etc.  Nature of the Beast.

Another reason is that the RPG section of FFG is very influenced by narrative and thematic storytelling.  The different games are meant to give different "experiences" that emulate the sub-genre within 40k.  In other words, they are meant to emulate the 40k fiction, not emulate the 40k universe in a "world in motion" manner because such a thing has never existed in the minds of anyone at GW.

Quote from: CRKrueger;452655The scattershot method of filling things in is part due to restrictions by GW.  At no point will another company be allowed to publish, say, a definitive guide to the Eldar, Dark Eldar, or whatever, because 1.) Then they wouldn't need to buy the Codices even though they don't play 40k (which many do), and 2.) GW changes and retcons things on a whim to suit the current edition.

So, instead of a Dark Eldar book or chapter that goes Codex item by Codex item and converts to RPG of your choice, they give you a guy here when present in a Dark Heresy adventure, a few threats here in a Rogue Trader section, etc.  Nature of the Beast.

See, that is understandable, if rather short sighted on the business front.  I understand that FFG is legally limited.  However, while I enjoyed RT, for example, the decision to include Kroot (a minor race with a very small fanbase) and Orks (in canon they are literally a pestilence!) as playable races, while leaving out space elves (with the huge built in fan base of anything elf like AND numerous canon instances of working with/being tolerable to the Imperium in RT sized doses) seemed positively bizzaro world!

Of course, you don't actually NEED a Codex style book either. A single 'Anathema' style book could cover all the 'human like' races from a playable aspect without actually treading on the toes of GW, just as a spitballing idea.

Of course, I've never really LIKED the career/rank format chosen by FFG, but the restriction it seems to have put on, say, Xenos, seems to reinforce my dislike by actually hobbling the development of the game.  

QuoteAnother reason is that the RPG section of FFG is very influenced by narrative and thematic storytelling.  The different games are meant to give different "experiences" that emulate the sub-genre within 40k.  In other words, they are meant to emulate the 40k fiction, not emulate the 40k universe in a "world in motion" manner because such a thing has never existed in the minds of anyone at GW.

Interesting observation but irrelevant.  People can play narrative and thematic space elves as easily as they can play narrative and thematic superhuman warrior monks with two hearts and big fucking guns.