Quote from: J Arcane;452519This is because this thread was started in bad faith to begin with, and all he ever wanted to do was bitch about it.  It doesn't actually matter what the game actually did or what argument used to "prove" it's complete lack of merit, because he's really just pissed that the developers lacked the psychic insight to reach into his mind and produce precisely the exact game he always imagined.

Unlike your lack of psychic insight into my intentions of course.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;452567Disciples is, again, a DH book. I really don't understand how peopel think this is a reasonable argument. What's in there is optimised, balanced, and designed for that game and it's premise. THere is some information that might be useful, but not enough to warrant spending £30+ on the entire book.

Once again, this is a factually untrue argument. The lines crossover relatively easily, and the antagonists more than most other parts. If you think DH antagonists can't be used against SMs, you are simply ignorant of DH antagonists, the capabilities of SMs, the horde rules, how equipment works, how combat works, how vehicles work, how psychic powers work, etc. Pretty much every part of the game's mechanics, in fact.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;452570Once again, this is a factually untrue argument. The lines crossover relatively easily, and the antagonists more than most other parts. If you think DH antagonists can't be used against SMs, you are simply ignorant of DH antagonists, the capabilities of SMs, the horde rules, how equipment works, how combat works, how vehicles work, how psychic powers work, etc. Pretty much every part of the game's mechanics, in fact.

They may or may not cross over easily.

But that still means having to buy books for a small portion of info because they aren't optimised for Space Marine adventures.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;452571They may or may not cross over easily.

But that still means having to buy books for a small portion of info because they aren't optimised for Space Marine adventures.

What a lazy, fucking idiot you are.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;452607What a lazy, fucking idiot you are.

Totally fucking uncalled for. You are way out of line call me a lazy fucking idiot because I don't have the money to buy every book released for the 40k games. Explain how that's lazy you fucking troll!

Quote from: Géza Echs;452442Why would you buy an RPG about Deathwatch members of the Imperial Space Marines and then complain that it doesn't allow you to play Eldar? Sounds like you wanted a generic 40K RPG. Deathwatch etc are clearly, obviously, upfrontedly not generic 40K RPGs. Why would you buy cupcakes and then complain that they're not cookies when they're obviously, upfrontedly not cookies?

The topic of the thread has drifted a bit, you know.  My comment about Eldar, etc, was in reference to the idea that the only proper way to do a 40K RPG is to have a very narrow theme.  I think that's bullshit.

I, personally, could care less about running a Xenos campaign.  But I don't see why when other people ask for the rules to do such a thing they get nothing but grief.  And surely the Rogue Trader line could have been a much more Xenos friendly game - there's no reason at all for the rules not to support having an Ork Freebooter or Eldar Pirate crew instead (and yes, in a seperate supplement, fine - but it should at least exist).

Quote from: kryyst;452495The big disconnect is people assuming that FFG is or was ever putting out a Warhammer 40k rpg.  That was never the case.  They simply are putting out RPG's set in the Warhammer 40k universe.

I'd even be 100% cool with that IF they actually bothered to fully support those ideas.

DH was incomplete for years.  It should have started out a lot closer to the old Inquisitor game in terms of power level and scope.

RT is still badly incomplete.  This is a game that really should feature more xenos, and at least include rules for everything in Battlefleet Gothic.

DW is barely there.  Here's a game that should feature pretty much everything in the base 40K game because its all about soldiers.

Quote from: Blackhand;452518I don't understand what the problem is.

If FFG made the same shit for every game (chaos sorcerers and the other shit you mentioned) like putting it all in the Deathwatch corebook, you'd complain about repeating bullshit.  By the way, you should check out Disciples of the Dark Gods.

Since they don't repeat themselves too much (other than rules / permutations) you complain about that instead.

Fuck.

As has been said, they do repeat the same stuff for every game - just badly.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to try and lug a dozen or two different hardbacks to a gaming session and try and figure out where everything is.

Now, if FFG had something similar to DDI like D&D has, that'd be different.  But it doesn't, so spreading material out is a pain and extremely expensive.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;452607What a lazy, fucking idiot you are.

Again, what is the theory here?  Why should we buy extremely expensive books if we have to do most of the work ourselves?

Not everyone wants to spend hours trying to dink around with stat blocks.

The industry is trending towards less prep work not more.  People want fast, quickly playable games now.  That doesn't make people lazy, they simply don't have the time with busy careers, families, etc.

Pseudo is welcome to speak for himself, but I suspect his annoyance was in Ghost repeating the same goddamn incompatibility claims for the umpteenth time in reply to a post where it was pointed out to not be a problem, by someone who as actually played the fucking game.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;452609Totally fucking uncalled for. You are way out of line call me a lazy fucking idiot because I don't have the money to buy every book released for the 40k games. Explain how that's lazy you fucking troll!

It's pretty simple, you fucking baby.

First you complain that there aren't enough monsters in the book. Then you complain about how you don't want to come up with your own monsters nor do you want to use perfectly acceptable and compatible monsters from other 40KRPG books.

When it is pointed out to you repeatedly that your claims about "optimised", "balanced", monsters etc. are baseless and unfounded by people who have actually transferred monsters between games, you ignore the comments and simply repeat your babble over and over.

So in brief, it's 100% called for, you self-absorbed, pretentious, whiny, stupid, self-righteous cunt.

Quote from: jgants;452611Again, what is the theory here?  Why should we buy extremely expensive books if we have to do most of the work ourselves?

Not everyone wants to spend hours trying to dink around with stat blocks.

Once again, it's pretty obvious you don't know shit about the game. Do you know what it takes to convert a single enemy from Dark Heresy to Deathwatch?

Protip: Nothing.

Do you know what it takes to convert a single antagonist from any other book in either of the other two lines into a horde?

Protip: Double the Wounds stat for Magnitude and treat them as a horde.

If this takes you "hours" to do, you are an idiot.

QuoteThe industry is trending towards less prep work not more.  People want fast, quickly playable games now.  That doesn't make people lazy, they simply don't have the time with busy careers, families, etc.

These same people spend hours and hours of their "busy" lives posting on RPG forums, watching TV, etc. At the start of this hobby, people like EGG had wives and kids (and televisions), and it didn't seem to interfere with their ability to plan games extensively. So yeah, laziness _is_ a pretty good description for it.

Quote from: jgants;452611People want fast, quickly playable games now.  That doesn't make people lazy, they simply don't have the time with busy careers, families, etc.

especially when they are new at the game, which has a significant crunch level, and have never run or played it before.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;452613It's pretty simple, you fucking baby.

First you complain that there aren't enough monsters in the book. Then you complain about how you don't want to come up with your own monsters nor do you want to use perfectly acceptable and compatible monsters from other 40KRPG books.

When it is pointed out to you repeatedly that your claims about "optimised", "balanced", monsters etc. are baseless and unfounded by people who have actually transferred monsters between games, you ignore the comments and simply repeat your babble over and over.

So in brief, it's 100% called for, you self-absorbed, pretentious, whiny, stupid, self-righteous cunt.

other books I don't own and would have to buy - on top of support for DW that I might otherwise want (such as Rites of Battle, with it's chapter creation rules, extra gear and whatever). How do you not understand this point?

Quote from: J Arcane;452612Pseudo is welcome to speak for himself, but I suspect his annoyance was in Ghost repeating the same goddamn incompatibility claims for the umpteenth time in reply to a post where it was pointed out to not be a problem, by someone who as actually played the fucking game.

You've really not read the thread have you.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;452618You've really not read the thread have you.

Every post, you hypocritical, ignorant jackass.

Quote from: J Arcane;452619Every post, you hypocritical, ignorant jackass.

Not one thing i've said has been hypocritical or ignorant; your abuse is totally uncalled for.

You just don't seem to understand the point: the books you two keep harping on about are optimised for DH - that means you are paying full price (which is an issue itself) for a fraction of the book's content. Do you seriously think that's a sensible way to develop a game? I've already said that there's only one chapter in CA that's useful 0- the Xeno's chapter. The same can be said of DotDG (from what i've seen, since I don't own it).

I'm not made of money, perhaps you should consider that not everyone who wants to play DW is even prepapred to just buy up every other 40k book for even a couple of pages of information.

If someone offered me these books for free, I'd bite their hand off to get them. You are as unreasonable as your abuse is unsolicited. resorting to the most arrogant level of bile to someone you seem unable to comprehend isn't in a position to buy all these wonderful books.

And I shouldn't really have to. requiring books from DH to play DW in order to include Orks in a game about, as you said, Ordos Xenos makes about as much sense as including orks in a game about the Inquisition. Can you not see there are better ways of portioning out this info? Sadly neither could FFG and I will have to make do with that. Now I'm prepared to give that a go, but don't insult me because I don't have the wherewithall to buy every book for Dark Heresy.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;452615Once again, it's pretty obvious you don't know shit about the game. Do you know what it takes to convert a single enemy from Dark Heresy to Deathwatch?

Protip: Nothing.

Do you know what it takes to convert a single antagonist from any other book in either of the other two lines into a horde?

Protip: Double the Wounds stat for Magnitude and treat them as a horde.

If this takes you "hours" to do, you are an idiot.



These same people spend hours and hours of their "busy" lives posting on RPG forums, watching TV, etc. At the start of this hobby, people like EGG had wives and kids (and televisions), and it didn't seem to interfere with their ability to plan games extensively. So yeah, laziness _is_ a pretty good description for it.

I've no idea how much the grinning dog knows abotu the game and how it works beyond owning the books, but most people in my position don't know 'shit' about the game - because they haven't read or played it. What else do you expect?

It may be the simplest thing in the world to convert stats, but I dont' see anywhere in the rules the covers this (there might be, i haven't got to that part yet). and if it's so easy then surely a couple of sidebars would be all that's needed. Especially for something you are so wound up about that therefore must be an intrinsic part of the GM's job.

And you are now quanifying your accusation by saying I'm too lazy to convert stats from a book I don't own that's a supplement for a game i've yet to buy (and having brought DW subsequently read)? Are you nuts?

And even so, it's a perfectly reasonable position for someone to take, when buying a fully designed rpg, that they don't want to do that kind of work - that's why games are written for others to buy. Otherwise we'd all just design our own 40k game and slag off those that refuse to do likewise as similarly lazy.