Red Book E3 games!

Phillip · March 30, 2011, 08:15:46 PM

Quote from: Peregrin;448870But that happens with all Christmas blitz toys....

That post reads to me as if you missed the point of Planet Algol's post. To recap:

Quote from: Planet Algola considerable percentage of people that did play D&D in the past may very well have effectively been playing red-box E3.

The issue was not "how D&D was like Furby in sometimes being an enduring favorite and sometimes not". It was more "how Basic D&D was like Squad Leader in being a game that could be played with or without expansion sets."

SL was (IIRC) the best-selling wargame ever, and not everyone who bought it bought the add-ons or ASL.

By the reckonings I recall, printings of the Basic D&D sets in the 1980s each sold more copies than any other D&D product ever has. They did that year after year, printing after printing, all overwhelmingly to newcomers to the hobby.

Obviously, only a few of those players went on to buy ECMI sets, or PHBs.

Aos · March 30, 2011, 08:32:30 PM

Quote from: Peregrin;448870A lot of people also got it for Christmas, didn't play it and put it away, tried to figure it out and then put it away, or played it once or twice and then put it away.

But that happens with all Christmas blitz toys. Like Furby, they've got their one or two Christmas seasons of good sales and popularity, and then it starts to curve downward.

Furby was doing fine until the introduction of the fleshlight crowded its niche. So to speak.

arminius · March 30, 2011, 08:35:01 PM

Kind of like VHS vs. Beta.

Peregrin · March 30, 2011, 08:37:29 PM

Quote from: Phillip;448883That post reads to me as if you missed the point of Planet Algol's post. To recap:

Point taken, and my apologies.

Quote from: Aos;448892Furby was doing fine until the introduction of the fleshlight crowded its niche. So to speak.

More apologies for giving Aos fuel for this post. I'm going to go scrub my brain with a toothbrush.

Cole · March 30, 2011, 08:41:58 PM

Quote from: Aos;448892Furby was doing fine until the introduction of the fleshlight crowded its niche. So to speak.

Q'apla!

arminius · March 30, 2011, 08:47:26 PM

But seriously, Squad Leader was conceived and published as a complete game. There is no place in Squad Leader where the procedures of the game push you to a point where you're staring off the edge of a cliff, rules-wise.

I haven't read either Moldvay or Mentzer closely enough to see if one could think, on reading them, that level 3 is the end and that's just how it is until you see the expert box on store shelf. It's interesting that Keep on the Borderlands has some hacks in it to handle "high level characters" without being too clear on what those levels were.

(The fact that lots of Red Box games were sold is neither here nor there, is all I'm saying. Don't mistake this for negative opinion of "E3".)

Cole · March 30, 2011, 08:53:02 PM

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;448901I haven't read either Moldvay or Mentzer closely enough to see if one could think, on reading them, that level 3 is the end and that's just how it is until you see the expert box on store shelf. It's interesting that Keep on the Borderlands has some hacks in it to handle "high level characters" without being too clear on what those levels were.

Both make reference to higher level characters. That doesn't preclude the possibility that many people may still have continued to play D&D without bothering to buy an expansion. I don't know how much that actually happened, of course. Given the relative sales of basic sets to expert sets, etc., presumably it must have happened to some degree, but I would think the majority of people who enjoyed D&D enough to play for a long period of time would have at least one person in the social circle going for the "upgrade."

Aos · March 30, 2011, 08:54:39 PM

Quote from: Cole;448906Both make reference to higher level characters. That doesn't preclude the possibility that many people may still have continued to play D&D without bothering to buy an expansion. I don't know how much that actually happened, of course. Given the relative sales of basic sets to expert sets, etc., presumably it must have happened to some degree, but I would think the majority of people who enjoyed D&D enough to play for a long period of time would have at least one person in the social circle going for the "upgrade."

IIRC, the guys i knew passed on the Expert set and went for AD&D.

Cole · March 30, 2011, 08:57:19 PM

Quote from: Aos;448908IIRC, the guys i knew passed on the Expert set and went for AD&D.

Hence the "etc."

That seemed to have happened a lot. I had an Expert set first, though I mixed and matched.

Aos · March 30, 2011, 08:59:53 PM

Quote from: Cole;448910Hence the "etc."

.

Sorry, I missed that. I was too busy thinking of my furby.

Benoist · March 30, 2011, 09:00:29 PM

Quote from: Aos;448908IIRC, the guys i knew passed on the Expert set and went for AD&D.

I'm pretty sure this isn't an isolated experience (how widespread that was further than this, I have no idea, however). I started playing with AD&D. When I started running games, I used the Dark Eye, then ran Basic Mentzer Red Box (once for sure, with which I basically hooked my first long running gaming group), then switched instantly for AD&D. I had the Expert Blue box but never used it in play.

Aos · March 30, 2011, 10:00:28 PM

I wish to own the Moldvay/Cook sets as fetish items and because I like the art in those sets a lot.

Cole · March 30, 2011, 10:03:42 PM

Quote from: Aos;448930I wish to own the Moldvay/Cook sets as fetish items and because I like the art in those sets a lot.

I also find them easier to use/reference in play than Mentzer/RC, but maybe it's just familiarity.

Benoist · March 30, 2011, 10:08:09 PM

Quote from: Cole;448932I also find them easier to use/reference in play than Mentzer/RC, but maybe it's just familiarity.

I have no idea bout Moldvay/Cook because I've never used the sets in actual play, but talking about Mentzer D&D, I'd run the game using the boxes instead of the Rules Cyclopedia itself. I like the idea of starting with the basic game and enlarging the game play experience as the characters' levels reach the benchmark of the next box and so on.

Cole · March 30, 2011, 10:11:35 PM

Quote from: Benoist;448934I have no idea bout Moldvay/Cook because I've never used the sets in actual play, but talking about Mentzer D&D, I'd run the game using the boxes instead of the Rules Cyclopedia itself. I like the idea of starting with the basic game and enlarging the game play experience as the characters' levels reach the benchmark of the next box and so on.

I'm speaking purely in terms of format.