Quote from: Insufficient Metal;433920If we were all silver-tongued black belt Navy SEALS with twelve inch dicks and power moves on the dance floor we wouldn't be sitting around pretending to be silver-tongued black belt Navy SEALS with twelve inch dicks and power moves on the dance floor. Present company excluded, of course. I know you guys are practically the Colonial Marines with better fashion sense.

 Dude, that is sooo sig worthy!

Quote from: CRKrueger;433923Now that's sig-worthy.  :hatsoff:

Jinx!

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;433920I don't game with catpissmen. I have a  couple players who aren't the sharpest improvisors in the world, and  there's no way in hell I'd penalize them in-game for that.(...)

Some of my players are more introverted by personality. I don't penalize them for that. Roleplaying IMHO is not the same as acting. Also, having to fittingly act out everything your character does would make it very difficult to play something very different from your real-life persona so I usually allow for players to "take the descriptive route" at times.

I had to look up what exactly is a cat piss man... I wouldn't allow smelly people or people that are disruptively socially awkward in my group. But what to do in a convention game where you suddenly notice someone's obnoxious body odeur?

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;433920If we were all silver-tongued black belt Navy SEALS with twelve inch dicks and power moves on the dance floor we wouldn't be sitting around pretending to be silver-tongued black belt Navy SEALS with twelve inch dicks and power moves on the dance floor. Present company excluded, of course. I know you guys are practically the Colonial Marines with better fashion sense.

Stop peeking in my fucking windows!

Seanchai

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;433920I don't game with catpissmen. I have a couple players who aren't the sharpest improvisors in the world, and there's no way in hell I'd penalize them in-game for that.

If we were all silver-tongued black belt Navy SEALS with twelve inch dicks and power moves on the dance floor we wouldn't be sitting around pretending to be silver-tongued black belt Navy SEALS with twelve inch dicks and power moves on the dance floor. Present company excluded, of course. I know you guys are practically the Colonial Marines with better fashion sense.

:hatsoff:

Quote from: Seanchai;433930Stop peeking in my fucking windows!

Seanchai

:teehee:

Quote from: The Butcher;433878I handle the player's social skill much like I handle stunting and/or creative tactics in combat. Craft a good story, deliver it cleverly, and I'll give you a bonus on that Deception roll. Tell a bad lie and you might have to deal with a penalty.

As for "punishing" the "socially awkward" players, well... if I don't like someone, I don't game with them, period. Perhaps you should do the same, Pundit, instead of trying too hard to be Teh Hardcorez.

Agreed.  For someone that is so uncomfortable around people who are different, it seems a very odd choice to move from Canada to Uruguay.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;433920I know you guys are practically the Colonial Marines with better fashion sense.

Is this a bad time to mention that I am selling 3 painted Colonial Marine figs from the Aliens RPG on eBay right now?

That would probably be tacky.  

Quote from: StormBringer;433947Agreed.  For someone that is so uncomfortable around people who are different, it seems a very odd choice to move from Canada to Uruguay.

I can only assume that Pundy gamed with the worst bunch of assholes in the entire Great White North during his high school years.  

I do lots of conventions and the whole "catpissman", stinky gamer and social freak meme is so bizarrely overstated on the internet.

Quote from: Spinachcat;433953I do lots of conventions and the whole "catpissman", stinky gamer and social freak meme is so bizarrely overstated on the internet.

In my experience, it's a phenomenon I associate most closely with gaming stores, the sort that have an open space for gaming, and regularly have a crowd occupying it, especially if you happen to be there during 9-5 working hours. It is there that I've seen the most stereotypically nerdy nerds. If Pundit was gaming in Calgary or Edmonton, I can think of a few places where this stereotype could have been reinforced, at least in the 90s.

Now, I can't say that agree that RPG rules themselves should punish social maladjustment. I think it really should be left to individual groups of players to decide what their level of tolerance is. Almost invariably, socially adept players are rewarded socially, anyway.

If, on the other hand, the question is asked if RPG rules should reward the manner of role-playing, and the in-game behaviour that the game is written for, then I would answer an unequivocal yes. On the third hand, if the question was whether any sort of playing or activity should be punished, then my answer would be more equivocal.

I always kind of felt that good role-playing and bringing cool ideas to the table was always a reward in-and-of-itself, regardless of whether the GM or the mechanics want to reward me for it.

Social validation is the reward for taking part in something social.  When I honestly surprise the GM, or the other players get a kick out of something my character did, that's my reward.  I don't want a fucking cookie, I just want to have fun.  That also means trying to help the people who are giving it an honest shot, and setting them up to do cool stuff if they're having a hard time by themselves.

It's a collaborative social endeavor, and everyone's goal is to have fun, so we should help eachother out and make the game the best it can be.

Quote from: Peregrin;433963I always kind of felt that good role-playing and bringing cool ideas to the table was always a reward in-and-of-itself, regardless of whether the GM or the mechanics want to reward me for it.

Social validation is the reward for taking part in something social.  When I honestly surprise the GM, or the other players get a kick out of something my character did, that's my reward.  I don't want a fucking cookie, I just want to have fun.  That also means trying to help the people who are giving it an honest shot, and setting them up to do cool stuff if they're having a hard time by themselves.

It's a collaborative social endeavor, and everyone's goal is to have fun, so we should help eachother out and make the game the best it can be.

Couldn't have said it better myself. You are on a roll, mister.

Quote from: Peregrin;433963I always kind of felt that good role-playing and bringing cool ideas to the table was always a reward in-and-of-itself, regardless of whether the GM or the mechanics want to reward me for it.

Social validation is the reward for taking part in something social.  When I honestly surprise the GM, or the other players get a kick out of something my character did, that's my reward.  I don't want a fucking cookie, I just want to have fun.  That also means trying to help the people who are giving it an honest shot, and setting them up to do cool stuff if they're having a hard time by themselves.

It's a collaborative social endeavor, and everyone's goal is to have fun, so we should help eachother out and make the game the best it can be.

I'd agree with this, and I'd go a step further.  Human beings are not actually Pavlovian, meaning that simple reward/punish incentives often don't produce the desired behavior.  For example, suppose the GM gives extra XP to the players he think demonstrate most "social skill."  I don't think this is necessarily going to make the group any more socially skilled.  

"Punishing" players who are introverted, shy, or otherwise less socially skilled isn't going to make them more social - it's just going to piss them off and make them less comfortable, along with everyone else.  I would instead give them encouragement and support in being more social.  If they're not interested in being more social, then they'll most likely lose interest and drop out.

Quote from: two_fishes;433961If, on the other hand, the question is asked if RPG rules should reward the manner of role-playing, and the in-game behaviour that the game is written for, then I would answer an unequivocal yes. On the third hand, if the question was whether any sort of playing or activity should be punished, then my answer would be more equivocal.

I find there's a fine line between rewards as a means to create waypoints for directing play and rewards as an attempt to assign an objective value to something subjective (player quality) as a replacement for social recognition. The latter type I find creates difficult social situations, instances of one-upmanship and competition rather than a collaborative focus on the in-game stuff.

For example, Exalted's stunt system has nothing to do with the themes of the game or what play is about other than being the most creative at the table, and I found that even my relatively complacent RPG group began competing amongst each other for that "3-die stunt" instead of focusing on the game at hand.  It became a meta-game affair of "win the favor of the GM" rather than "Let's have our characters do cool stuff in-game because it makes the game/fiction/whatever more fun."

Quote from: jhkimI'd agree with this, and I'd go a step further. Human beings are not actually Pavlovian, meaning that simple reward/punish incentives often don't produce the desired behavior. For example, suppose the GM gives extra XP to the players he think demonstrate most "social skill." I don't think this is necessarily going to make the group any more socially skilled.

Well, what I said is more-or-less my idealistic opinion of RP.  I've always focused less on the "game" aspect, and more on the in-game aspects of play.

I've seen people respond to reward cycles, I just don't think people always respond to them in a positive manner that aligns with what the designer actually intended or a healthy campaign.  I've noticed that people who focus more on gaming the system and whatnot often go out of their way to earn "Fate points" and stuff because of the advantages it gives them in combat or whatever, despite the fact that they were designed to reward other aspects of play.  Rather than focusing the game on the things you get rewarded for like they're supposed to, doing those things just becomes a way to farm for points to do stuff the player is actually interested in.

Quote from: Peregrin;433974I find there's a fine line between rewards as a means to create waypoints for directing play and rewards as an attempt to assign an objective value to something subjective (player quality) as a replacement for social recognition. The latter type I find creates difficult social situations, instances of one-upmanship and competition rather than a collaborative focus on the in-game stuff.

For example, Exalted's stunt system has nothing to do with the themes of the game or what play is about other than being the most creative at the table, and I found that even my relatively complacent RPG group began competing amongst each other for that "3-die stunt" instead of focusing on the game at hand.  It became a meta-game affair of "win the favor of the GM" rather than "Let's have our characters do cool stuff in-game because it makes the game/fiction/whatever more fun."

You're determined to make me equivocate, aren't you?

Quote from: two_fishes;433980You're determined to make me equivocate, aren't you?

Eh, I tend to over-think things and make them more complicated than they have to be.

Quote from: Peregrin;433963I always kind of felt that good role-playing and bringing cool ideas to the table was always a reward in-and-of-itself, regardless of whether the GM or the mechanics want to reward me for it.

They are to a degree, but when they occur in a vacuum, they start to become...less desirable. Hollow.

Seanchai