Quote from: PaladinCA;412804WotC has plenty of those on retainer. Given their history, it is amazing that Character Builder has worked as well as it has up to this point.

WotC's previous attempt at a character builder type program, was a total botch job.  This was the character builder program which came on a cdrom with the 3E PHB.

Quote from: Seanchai;412805So it isn't that WotC said integrating mechanics was troublesome, it's that you don't believe what WotC attributed the delay to and so came up with your own explanation. And then told a bunch of people that WotC said something they didn't.

WotC did say that integrating the mechanics was causing a delay. That was what the first announcement was about. The announcement came from WotC itself. Go back and read it.

I did not come up with the integration issue. WotC said they were having trouble integrating the mechanics. What I added to that was: Why are they having trouble with integration? A valid question to discuss.

The announcement of a delay due to creating a web-based character builder came long after that first announcement to which I am referring.

One should not dismiss the first announcement after WotC makes a second announcement and then act as though the first announcement never happened. Both announcements should be considered.

Edit: I believed the first announcement but asked WHY is this? I found the second announcement to be less credible given the integration issues stated by WotC in the first announcement. But if a new web-based application will allow for integration of Essentials and Core then so be it. We'd all be happy with that outcome. Believe whatever WotC announcements you want to believe Seanchai. Just don't tell me that I'm making shit up when I'm quoting WotC statements that you are choosing to ignore. Because when you do that, you're just being a douche.

Quote from: PaladinCA;412871WotC did say that integrating the mechanics was causing a delay. That was what the first announcement was about. The announcement came from WotC itself. Go back and read it.

I have. It doesn't say mechanics, nor does it say database. You took it to mean those things, but "The process of integrating the new changes from Dark Sun and Essentials is taking a bit longer than we expected..." could also mean that:

1. The staff making the changes could be out sick, behind in their duties, etc..

2. Eleventh hour wrangling or issues not related mechanics could have sprung up (as they often do in the business world).

3. The release of Essentials, as I understand it, was pushed up and thus the schedule of work on the DDI could be behind.

4. As Windjammer mentioned, they might be having integrating Dark Sun and Essentials because of other issues. For example, Essentials uses a different, simplified character sheet. It might be taking longer than expected to get the Character Builder to use and display two different sheets.

I think the best evidence that your assumption is incorrect is a) they haven't added Dark Sun material and b) they told us exactly what's causing the delay and it's not what you claimed.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;412899I think the best evidence that your assumption is incorrect is a) they haven't added Dark Sun material and b) they told us exactly what's causing the delay and it's not what you claimed.

Seanchai

Why did they wait several weeks to announce the delay was a result of developing an online web-based CB? If that was really the cause of the delays, instead of integration issues with Essentials and Core, why didn't they just come out and say so from the start?

We disagree on what WotC meant in their initial announcement about "integration issues." So let's just leave it at that.

I hope we get a good CB when all the dust has settled - One that at least supports both core and essentials (and Dark Sun).

Quote from: PaladinCA;412923Why did they wait several weeks to announce the delay was a result of developing an online web-based CB?

It was clear their initial statement wasn't sufficient. They were getting a lot of questions and irate customers. That doesn't make sense to you?

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;412938It was clear their initial statement wasn't sufficient. They were getting a lot of questions and irate customers. That doesn't make sense to you?

Seanchai

No, it makes sense that they would come up with additional information. I'm just taking that additional information with a grain of salt.

Bottom line is that WotC dropped the ball here. Now they have to fix it.

Quote from: PaladinCA;412968Bottom line is that WotC dropped the ball here. Now they have to fix it.

I agree with you there...

Seanchai

Still, this adds a big weapon to the arsenal of those who claim that Essentials and 4e are two different games ("if they were the same Wotc wouldn't be having this problem!").

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;413060Still, this adds a big weapon to the arsenal of those who claim that Essentials and 4e are two different games ("if they were the same Wotc wouldn't be having this problem!").

Especially if this continues on in future quarters.

Quote from: RPGPundit;413060Still, this adds a big weapon to the arsenal of those who claim that Essentials and 4e are two different games ("if they were the same Wotc wouldn't be having this problem!").

RPGPundit

That was basically my point.

I'm not sure if Essentials is actually 4.5 or not, especially since I have yet to play or create a character for Essentials. But based on the original statement by WotC about having integration issues within the character builder, I thought this entire situation added more weight to the arguments of those claiming that it is.

The jury is still out....

Quote from: RPGPundit;413060Still, this adds a big weapon to the arsenal of those who claim that Essentials and 4e are two different games ("if they were the same Wotc wouldn't be having this problem!").

WotC saying they need more time to work out the kinks in the roll out of their web-based version of the Character and Monster Builders is a big weapon for those who make such claims? Or the assumptions - unsupported assumptions - folks have made based on the word "integrated" in a statement they released is a big weapon?

Because if it's the latter, people hardly need any kind of statements, factual evidence, etc., to manufacture such "big weapons."

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;413068Because if it's the latter, people hardly need any kind of statements, factual evidence, etc., to manufacture such "big weapons."

Of course.

One just finds any smidgen of information supporting their thesis, and then pounce over it.

This is entirely how the niche of "conspiracy theorists" functions, as well as politics.  

Quote from: Seanchai;413068WotC saying they need more time to work out the kinks in the roll out of their web-based version of the Character and Monster Builders is a big weapon for those who make such claims? Or the assumptions - unsupported assumptions - folks have made based on the word "integrated" in a statement they released is a big weapon?

Because if it's the latter, people hardly need any kind of statements, factual evidence, etc., to manufacture such "big weapons."

Seanchai

Seanchai, using FUD to be a 4venger.