I tried getting some info about this on RPGnet, but no one seemed to bite.

Mechanically speaking what are the differences in power between starting level PCs from each game?

What is a starting level character from each game capable of in game terms?

I own all three, but so far I've only played a DW one-shot.  It seems obvious that a Space Marine would be more powerful out of the gate, but apart from a +5 boost to starting stats and more initial funds how do DH/RT characters stack up?

I haven't played RT, but there doesn't seem to be much of a difference between Death Watch and Dark Heresy. The Death Watch characters seem a bit stronger, and better equipment is assumed, but they still aren't great.

mechanically they start out about 4000xp higher and a hell of a lot better equipment access.

Dark Heresy is the intro level game book. It's the easier of the two to initially grasp.

Rogue Trader isn't so much tier two, as advanced characters, by adding the Profit Factor mechanic. Profit Factor is your ability to pay for something, whether a gun, a spaceship, or a planet (with differing modifiers, of course). Profit Factor not only represents money, but influence too. It gets people to do things they wouldn't otherwise be willing to...

(If Dark Heresy is the lvl1-10 book, Rogue Trader is the 5-15 advanced play supplement; Dark heresy is "adventure group play", where as Rogue Trader tends more to "empire building play")

So it's more of a scale thing than a pure power level thing?

I'm trying to imagine a RT game and I keep coming up blank.  What do the characters do?  Do they trade?  Get involved in politics?  

At first glance RT seems more like a typical adventuring party than either DH or DW.

Quote from: MonkeyWrench;409544So it's more of a scale thing than a pure power level thing?

I'm trying to imagine a RT game and I keep coming up blank.  What do the characters do?  Do they trade?  Get involved in politics?  

At first glance RT seems more like a typical adventuring party than either DH or DW.

DH characters become more personally competent, at a much faster rate than RT characters. A starting RT character is considered the equivilant of a 5000XP DH character. That's because all RT characters have access to Profit Factor.

A DH team only has the resources and influence their Inquisitor/Interrogator gives them, and what they can acquire on their own (i.e. fatz loot!).

A RT character can bring down a squad of red-shirts with him every game, to "take care of" the unpleasantness of combat. Or business. Or Assassination. Or religious conversion. Or whores, if that's you're thing.

DH characters are concerned with finding the "Big Bads" that could destabilze the Imperium, and rendering hot violent justice to them. RT characters are looking to create their own little empire, all in the name of the much larger God-Emperor of Mankind's "Imperium of Man".

Quote from: MonkeyWrench;409360I tried getting some info about this on RPGnet, but no one seemed to bite.

Mechanically speaking what are the differences in power between starting level PCs from each game?

What is a starting level character from each game capable of in game terms?

I own all three, but so far I've only played a DW one-shot.  It seems obvious that a Space Marine would be more powerful out of the gate, but apart from a +5 boost to starting stats and more initial funds how do DH/RT characters stack up?

Rogue Trader chars start about as tough as Rank 5 (IIRC) DH chars who spent most of their points on stat boosts. DW characters start as tough as Rank 10 DH chars who spent most of their points on stat b oosts.

A starting DH character is roughly similar to a 1st level PC in D&D, if that helps you think of it. They've probably got a high-30 or low-40 in their primary stat. If the DM isn't screwing them on bonuses, that means they're probably succeeding on their basic, core competencies between 1/2 and 2/3rds of the time. Most starting characters are specialists of one sort or another.

DH chars tend to end up with way more skills than anyone else, and with the best bonuses to those skills from advancements. A DH char should be looking to acquire gear to boost their skills whenever possible, as well as elite advance packages to allow them to spend their XP on crazy shit that no one else can get.

RT characters start off with usually mid to high 50s in their core stats, and high 30s to low 40s in the others. They usually possess the abilities, talents and gear to boost the chance of success to 3/4 or better. They usually have excellent starting personal gear, squads of guys, and a ship that can outfight most others in its weight-class.

RT chars have smaller skill lists than comparable DH characters, but the smaller skill sets that they have are usually a bit more balanced and evenly spread so that the RT char is better balanced. They also tend to have more wounds, fate points, and skills that they count as "basic".

One thing to watch out for is that not all RT characters contribute equally to the flying of the ship, and space combat can suck if one character is the only one who can shoot the guns. Also, RT psykers aren't actually as good as DH psykers of comparable experience, despite initially seeming better.

RT characters should be looking to boost their profit factor, to acquire rare and unique items (of PC or GM design) and to get information, favours and other soft-currencies that make life interesting.

I don't know DW as well as the other two, since I've played them but not it. It looks like chars can probably get a low-60 in primary stats, and they start off with tons of talents that make characters extremely survivable. An ordinary lasgun can't actually damage a starting space marine. They get good gear, but it stays relatively flat for most of their careers, except for one-off mission-critical items and the occasional unique piece.

Of the three systems, btw, DH produces the most personally powerful chars IMHO. Primaris Psykers, Super-Augmentation Tech-Priests, Chaos Sorcerers and top-level Assassins can all take on Space Marines, even extremely powerful ones, and their versatility, access to weird gear and wide range of powers and resources will carry over the space marine's powerful but limited named bolter-melta combi-gun any day.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;409647Of the three systems, btw, DH produces the most personally powerful chars IMHO. Primaris Psykers, Super-Augmentation Tech-Priests, Chaos Sorcerers and top-level Assassins can all take on Space Marines, even extremely powerful ones, and their versatility, access to weird gear and wide range of powers and resources will carry over the space marine's powerful but limited named bolter-melta combi-gun any day.

True, an Ascension-Level Dark Heresy level character would eat even a high-rank Space Marine or Rogue Trader for lunch and have room for dessert.  The RT and DW skills and talents cost too much exp compared to DH.

The three games having three different systems of advancement that don't 100% mesh was the stupidest thing FFG could do, but from hearing Merritt talk, I believe that's by design.  GW does not want one universal 40k RPG.

Quote from: CRKrueger;409662The three games having three different systems of advancement that don't 100% mesh was the stupidest thing FFG could do, but from hearing Merritt talk, I believe that's by design.  GW does not want one universal 40k RPG.

So fuck GW! What would it take to bring the various rulebooks closer to agreement?
Which book is the best basis for a more generic 40k RPG that lets me run games about hive gangers or holo-vid starlets or families of conniving Imperial nobles? I'm thinking Dark Heresy has the closest to 'street level' start ups... is that right? (I've only read the DH book).

Quote from: Simlasa;409812So fuck GW! What would it take to bring the various rulebooks closer to agreement?
Which book is the best basis for a more generic 40k RPG that lets me run games about hive gangers or holo-vid starlets or families of conniving Imperial nobles? I'm thinking Dark Heresy has the closest to 'street level' start ups... is that right? (I've only read the DH book).

DH definitely. You wouldn't even need to change most of the class progressions, just rename or broaden them conceptually.

Most of the differences between the games are relatively minor, and involve similarly named talents and the full auto rules. Character generation is different in all three, but if you're not playing space marines it's basically whether you want to use RT's life-path system or DH's roll-on-tables method.

And whether you want to be an uber-mensch (DH), or hold the lives of thousands (millions?) at your beck and call (RT), at higher levels.

Quote from: Novastar;409833And whether you want to be an uber-mensch (DH), or hold the lives of thousands (millions?) at your beck and call (RT), at higher levels.

Probably neither... I'm thinking something more like Philip Marlowe stories set on a hive world... ala Moebius's 'Long Tomorrow' comic... with the trappings of the 40k setting... and possible cultists lingering in the wings.