So since I'm going on yet another tangent, I'm going to please the forum cops and create another thread for it. Rant ahead. Enjoy.

I cringed when I read this:

Quote from: The Butcher;393249Yeah, it gets old quick, but I'm all for it. When it comes to retro-clones, the more the merrier, as long as they're free of course.

If this was Serious Business, I can see how glut would be a Bad Thing. If the authors are seriously thinking of selling it in game stores, for cold, hard cash, I suspect that's a good, sure-fire recipe for heartbreak. But free PDFs on the intarwebz? Go crazy.

Disclaimer: NOT Butcher specific. I know he didn't intend to go nearly as far as what I'm going after here in this rant. He just provided me with the occasion to write this post. He is not my target here. The meme is.
The meme: "RPGs are serious business". Comes from "the internet is serious business" meme.
My contention: the meme is just used by geeks to refer to other geeks as being "more geeks" than themselves. A sort of "I'm more mature than thou" argument that actually doesn't bring squat to conversations besides finger pointing at each other.

I hate this serious business meme.

It is complete, utter bullshit. Yes, we are talking about games and entertainment. We also happen to have people on this board who make (part of) a living out of this source of entertainment. People who've been enjoying this source of entertainment for many years, decades also. Who've come to meet friends and loved ones through it, and share moments with their children and nephews while playing. Who love tangentially related things through role playing games. Who value any or all activities related to role playing games, like say world-building, painting miniatures, designing characters, acting them out, whatever it is they like about them. Role playing games have been part of their lives for a while, and they're intertwined with so many other things that they really are part of a greater whole to them.

Yes. RPGs can be talked about seriously.

You don't want to, that's fine by me, but I don't have to just shut up because you think I'm being geekier than thou. Yes, I'm a geek. I know this already. If you think pointing the finger at me in such a manner makes you any cooler than I am, you're seriously deluded, my friend. You're just acting like a dick by being an unoriginal mightier-than-thou jerkwad on the intarwebz.

Congratulations.
Welcome to the Machine.
You have now been assimilated.

Quote from: Benoist;393315Yes. RPGs can be talked about seriously.

Indeed they can, just not too seriously and not all the time.

That leads to embolisms.

Quote from: One Horse Town;393317Indeed they can, just not too seriously and not all the time.

I'll agree to that. Particularly the latter part.

Entertainment is serious business if its your livelihood.   Otherwise, not so much.  But for people who lack a fully engaging life (and that's most people), it's not surprising that hobbies become a major or even total focus.   I have met plenty of sports fans who out-freakygeek any RPGer I've ever encountered.

Never met a gamer who had a D&D logos covering their hat, jacket, shirt and  pants at the same time and had memorized the names and history of all the D&D contributors for the past decades.  However, I bet we all have met that sports guy with the "my local team is way better than your local team" mentality to the extreme.

Quote from: Benoist;393315I hate this serious business meme.

What don't you hate?

Next you'll be bitching about a lack of puppies on Equipment lists.

Quote from: Spinachcat;393319What don't you hate?

Next you'll be bitching about a lack of puppies on Equipment lists.

That's always pissed me off.

Maybe I don't WANT a full-grown wardog.

Quote from: Spinachcat;393319What don't you hate?

Plenty of things we actually get to talk about on the boards. If you want some threads I posted where there's no ranting involved, try the medieval eurth brainstorm, the OD&D character sheet brainstorm,  the st. makhab level, the Charnel Crypt of the Sightless Serpent review, the Majestic Wilderlands reading, D Day adventures, Confrontation miniatures, Tell me more about Labyrinth Lords, Greyhawk names, RuneQuest II Combat = Awesome, RuneQuest II for Actual Dungeoneering, and so on, so forth.

Now granted, I haven't actually searched very much, and these are just a bunch of threads I started myself.

Quote from: Spinachcat;393319Next you'll be bitching about a lack of puppies on Equipment lists.

Not a bad idea for a rant, actually!

Quote from: Spinachcat;393319Next you'll be bitching about a lack of puppies on Equipment lists.

Tangental, brief game anecdote:

In the first Iron Heroes game I played in, the GM was using "corrupted spiritualism".  The group spiritualist stocked up on puppies as "fuel" for his mojo.  Fortunately, I think he though better of it later since they were never mentioned again (or the GM had a private word with him about it).

Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;393335Tangental, brief game anecdote:

In the first Iron Heroes game I played in, the GM was using "corrupted spiritualism".  The group spiritualist stocked up on puppies as "fuel" for his mojo.  Fortunately, I think he though better of it later since they were never mentioned again (or the GM had a private word with him about it).

LOL Reminds me of Ghul and his houserule for throwing sand in the eye of your opponent specifically designed to discourage people from exploring dungeons with bags of sand around their belts. Guess there's something to it, heh?

surely you're not implying that there are rants on MY forum.

(edit: side note - I know the guy who created the "serious business" meme.  And the "arguing on the internet/special olympics" meme, and the "All Your Base" meme - he used to post over at portalofevil.com, but started those particular ones on somethingawful.com's forums)

Quote from: thedungeondelver;393337surely you're not implying that there are rants on MY forum.

Nah. No such thing on the delver's dungeon.

Well I guess RE is allowed to be sorta right about some things.

Quote from: Spinachcat;393319Next you'll be bitching about a lack of puppies on Equipment lists.

That's why you buy two wardogs.

The "serious business" stuff always makes me think of the "old school" Farador session.  "This is a serious game."  

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;393356The "serious business" stuff always makes me think of the "old school" Farador session.  "This is a serious game."  

LOL I watched this video some time ago. That's a good one.

Quote from: Spinachcat;393319Entertainment is serious business if its your livelihood.   Otherwise, not so much.  But for people who lack a fully engaging life (and that's most people), it's not surprising that hobbies become a major or even total focus.   I have met plenty of sports fans who out-freakygeek any RPGer I've ever encountered.

This is all true. For some time now in seeing who I'd like to game with, I've applied a "2 out of 3 test," designed to weed out the nutter geeks.

In my view, there are four basic areas of our social and personal lives: friends/family, intimate, work and hobby. Simply having things labelled as "work" etc in their life doesn't mean they are really sufficient for the person. These have to be emotionally rewarding relationships.

It's been my observation that if a person has all four of these things, they're happy and fulfilled. When they have troubles in one area, the other 3 can easily support it. If they have 3/4, they're happy but do occasionally wish for more, and troubles in one can put a strain on the other, but not a lethal strain.

If they've 2/4, things become more delicate, as troubles in one cause the person to lean heavily on the other, and it's often not much of a base to build the 3rd and 4th from.  

If you've 1/4 then you tend to put everything into it. This leads to those crazy adolescent relationships which might end in a suicide pact, or the boring guy who lives for his work and goes home to an empty apartment where he does more work, etc.

Everyone can be without some of these things for a couple of years when they move to a new city, or after an intimate relationship ends and the husband takes all the friends, etc. But most socially adjusted people will pick themselves up and manage 3/4 within a couple of years. If someone has had 0-2 of the 4 for 5+ years, generally there's something a bit wacky about them. There's a reason for it. When dealing with geeks, we know they have 1/4 already, the hobby. So I just worry about the other 3. They have to have at least 2/3 of friends/family, intimate and work. If they've one or none, they'll be trouble.

This brings us to geeks and Serious Business. If someone has only work in their life, naturally they'll be a bit loopy about it and take it overly seriously. They've got nothing else. Likewise, with rpgs as a hobby. Ironically, having just one or two things in your life does not necessarily mean you'll be good at them. You might care too much to be good.